Author Topic: Planetary Combat  (Read 9340 times)

Niwantaw

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Re: Planetary Combat
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2012, 06:34:54 pm »
Once you get close enough a message should appear giving you the option to enter its atmosphere/orbit. Once accepted you are taken in to a different zone separate from the original playing field (Like entering the Nether in Mine Craft) which could either be in atmosphere or low orbit (so the possibility of slagging it from above is possible). From there the map should start loading the terrain.

The devs did say they want a minimum of loading bars...
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CmndrMarcsBirger

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Re: Planetary Combat
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2012, 06:40:01 pm »
...and I think that by sprite, you mean object (this isn't DOOM, and we'll be flying around near these things...). A textured-sphere works much better in 3d than an image when you've got to animate it and have players on different sides orbiting it.

As long as its not a lagg machine. We got to remember that by the time this feature comes with multi player people will probably be flying around in massive ships of their own adding to the lagg a 1:1 scale planet would do.

SnowDragon

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Re: Planetary Combat
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2012, 11:18:51 am »
They're be a huge limit on what we can and can't have multiplayer, at this current point a 'normal' server with basic gear only (Planets, random pirates, wrecks etc) Probably requires more disk space and processing power at once than any online game to preceed it. There's only so much one can do to keep a lid on all that shit before the lag starts to build.

[ZanMgt]Gabriel

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Re: Planetary Combat
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2012, 12:00:37 pm »
This game is designed for multiplayer, there will be almost nothing in singleplayer that will not be in multiplayer. (Yes, I see the double negative ;) )

For those who want to see an example of a procedurally generated planets and star systems (pretty much a universe) http://en.spaceengine.org/
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CmndrMarcsBirger

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Re: Planetary Combat
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2012, 07:37:02 pm »
This game is designed for multiplayer, there will be almost nothing in singleplayer that will not be in multiplayer. (Yes, I see the double negative ;) )

For those who want to see an example of a procedurally generated planets and star systems (pretty much a universe) http://en.spaceengine.org/

*speechless*

That is simply amazing... never seen anything of this scale before.

How will Blockade Runner's expanding universe compare to SpaceEngine?

theallmightybob

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Re: Planetary Combat
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2012, 07:42:26 pm »
well you could probibly adapt something very similar for most of the planets and solar systems, maybe a bit lower quality with some sort of seemless minecraft like chunk loading when you hit the atmosphear.  other then the chunk loading you could treat whole planet likes entites and just start swaping in the cube ness as you get closer,  anythitng not directly blow your ship could be simple polygon texture map untill you are close enough.


edit: the texture map could even be player changeable through block placement on the ground. it would take a big structure to give you a dot change from far away though. I could see there being a number of texture maps per planet depending on distance.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2012, 07:49:02 pm by theallmightybob »
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Rainman

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Re: Planetary Combat
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2012, 11:28:17 am »
Hmm...

I'm imaging a way you could procedurally generate on-the-fly explorable planets without taking up a titanic amount of data.

The way is, basically, inception.

Essentially- You enter a solar system. The game generates a "planet" entity, which is a single, unsubdivided object with a procedurally generated size and combination of texture layers to create the planet's superficial appearance (i.e. layers of multihued striped for the gas bands of a gas giant, blue base plus continental splotches and a cloud brush to generate blue marbles, etc.)

If you were to leave the system now, it'd stay like this- a single entity, single poxel really I suppose. Minimal data needed to store it.

Then, as you approach, the planet-poxel divides into subvoxels. Hemispheres, perhaps, or quarters of hemispheres. These subdivisions are then procedurally generated the macrodetails of a planet- continents, polar caps, oceans, that kind of Huge Stuff. More detail, still working on the fly, only a relatively small bit of additional data to store.

This process continues- if you fly closer, then the global-subpoxel segment you're closest to subdivides further and generates somewhat greater detail in those subdivisions, but only those subdivisions. This process would continue until you touched down and landed into an MC-style chunk with individual block level terrain generation, but the beauty is that only that chunk you touched down on would have that level of detail, minimizing the data storage needed. Exploring about would generate other chunks, MC style.

Then, if you were to lift off again so you could travel a significant difference without taking months to do so, achieving flight altitude in whatever craft you were in would tell the game to put a proportional cutoff on the lowest subpoxel level it will render, so it would go back to increasingly larger and less detailed planet-subdivisions in your high altitude flyby, so as to not waste data storage and processing time generating the minute terrestrial details of everything you pass over in your flyby. If you were to do this and then land again, you would once again go through the increasing-detail-subvoxel-generation as you landed, or you could fly out to space again. In which case the planet is still there, still planet sized, but still not exorbitantly data or rendering expensive, because it only needs to store the relevant subdivisions, and only needs to display the highest-level ones again.


You could also use this method to implement scanning of planets from space- scanner tools would essentially be telling the game to apply a "brush" of sorts which causes it to procedurally generate a specified area/level of detail on the planet where your ship is scanning it. You would be able to tweak the parameters of your scan, to either sweep a broad swathe in low detail or focus in on a specific area for greater detail. This would then be as code-simple as correspondingly telling the game that for the moment it's only being allowed to procedurally generate up to a certain subvoxel level, and that as that level goes deeper, the size of the "brush" gets smaller. This both fits the idea of "focusing your scanner" and helps ensure that the game isn't overwhelmed having to generate too much high level detail at once.


Lastly, if a planet is intended to be inhabited/fortified by an NPC faction, then something like MC could be done where there's a chance one of the deep-level subdivisions spawns a town or a bunker/base or somesuch, for more organic/procedural placement. Or, if such things were part of a quest or other plot significant thing where a specific feature being at a specific place on a specific planet was important, the devs could just assign code to the designated planet along the lines of "whatever else, When you generate THESE LEVEL CHUNKS in THIS AREA, you must include THESE FEATURES."
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theallmightybob

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Re: Planetary Combat
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2012, 11:51:54 am »
yeah I like that. it expands quite well on what I was to lazy to write. things like pre generated bases and such could be placed once you get into a better view of the planet. maybe city lights on one of the blobs or something like that. or if they want it to just be a simple system it could have a mining station orbiting it or something similar to indicate that a high level population is on the planet.  even just a few satalites for smaller colonies.


you could even build a visual que for the tech level/size of an NPC city based on a few layers of things orbiting.  lower level space worthy civs might have just a samll sat network, then the next level might have a small space station that you can dock to for trading as well, no landing required to trade. Then up from that would likey be something much more impressive like an orbital shipyard to let you know that planet means bissness. the final visual cue for the highest level city/planet could be a planetary shield generator, this in turn would ofcorse let off alot of energy and make it easy to find compared to say a little colony with just a few sats up. the procedual gen could just add a sort of shimmer shader overtop of a normal panet. from vary far away maybe your sensors will have a chance to ping you telling you it knows there is a large city planet in that system every few minutes)

each tech level could then be used to help deturmin what kind of goods are avaliable. both raw and manufactured for trade. if you wanted to take it even deeper, then you might even be able to use their raw goods information to figure out what you could mine on that planet in large quanities baring some extreemly rare things.
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Rainman

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Re: Planetary Combat
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2012, 12:16:05 pm »
Excellent expansion of ideas! I was so caught up in explaining my planet-gen idea before I forgot it, that I neglected to mention anything about generated orbital/planetary infrastructure, level and sophistication of colonization, and all the implications of those things.
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Zero_X4

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Re: Planetary Combat
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2012, 12:48:15 pm »
I love that idea, Rainman....brilliant.
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Me2005

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Re: Planetary Combat
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2012, 01:16:28 pm »
Hmm...

But how does this deal with the huge amount of data generated by players flying close to planets?

So if I've done fly-by mappings of the Earth, Mars, and the Moon; looking for civilization and a place to build, how do you deal with the ~3 Earths of surface area I've mapped? If you're using a voxel system anything like MC, I've just mapped at least a few dozen Gigs of data. You either need to dump that, negating my exploration, or use a different method for generating terrain; polygons, for example, would be less (Space Engine doesn't appear to be using voxels, for example).
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Rainman

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Re: Planetary Combat
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2012, 01:54:37 pm »
Good point.  :-[

I suppose that once you start getting into subdivisions that are relatively flat, you could let the game hand over rendering things from using sphere-segment poxels to pure polygonal representation? But to my understanding, this would render you largely unable to interact with and manipulate the terrain as universally and organically as we've been hoping for/thinking about.
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DEFCON

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Re: Planetary Combat
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2012, 02:02:21 pm »
Wtf is a poxel? You just started to use the word without any explanation, and google doesn't seem to know the word either.

Rainman

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Re: Planetary Combat
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2012, 02:17:18 pm »
My apologies, I thought it was something ZANMGT had explained to our community at large.

A poxel is a discrete entity a game can keep track of. It's almost exactly the same thing as a voxel, the cube-shaped elements in games like MC or Infiniminer, but they can have custom shapes (Polygonal geometry, hence the "p") with multiple different directions, instead of just being limited to cubes and the six directions a cube's faces point in.
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DEFCON

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Re: Planetary Combat
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2012, 02:39:53 pm »
Ok, thanks for the explanation. Search on the forum found the only hits from this thread, so it must be some IRC explanation.