Author Topic: My random solution to slow space games. In one sentence.  (Read 4738 times)

MRC

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My random solution to slow space games. In one sentence.
« on: October 14, 2015, 07:45:16 am »
Make them about submarines instead of spaceships.

Edit:
It would have been kinda funny to leave it at that, but I feel the need to expand and explain my statement.

First of, what do i mean by "slow space game", here I'm simply referring to games with spaceships speed-capped at ridiculously low speed. Examples I know of being Starmade at 50km/h and Space Engineer at about 110m/s.

And why "make them about submarines instead of spaceships"? That thought came after seeing some gameplay of Angels Fall First. It had this one asteroid map so cluttered and blue it looked like they were dishing it out between some glaciers under the north pole. This made me think "If they kept everything, kept the bigger ships upright, put a floor and had fishes swim about this would make an awesome sci-fi submarine battle game". Who said submarine couldn't shoot lasers and deploy aqua-fighters?

In addition, If you do not exploit any trademark space physics (speed, range, newtonian physics ...etc.) setting your game under the sea will give so many more interactive landscape possibilities. For example, what do you expect to see as terrain in space? Some asteroids, maybe a station, a planet in the background perhaps. Underwater you have fault lines, mountains, coral reefs, abysses, kelp forests, iceberg clusters, active volcano chains and so on.

Much more could be said but I like keeping things short, let me know what you think.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2015, 01:33:58 am by MRC »
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RoflTankFTW

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Re: My random solution to slow space games. In one sentence.
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2015, 11:31:33 am »
So basically... Silent Hunter?
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MRC

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Re: My random solution to slow space games. In one sentence.
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2015, 04:22:00 pm »
Not exactly. My point is if you took a game like old Starmade (didn't check paid version) or Angels Fall First, which both have painfully slow spaceship, and replaced the starry background by deep-sea fog, you'd go from painfully slow spaceship to awesome sci-fi submarine.

Think of the possibilities too! The vistas like deep-sea canyons and volcanoes, the wildlife ...etc.

I'd buy, I'd buy so hard.

Automatic Post Merge: October 15, 2015, 01:11:09 am
*edited the main post to expand on the concept*
« Last Edit: October 15, 2015, 01:11:09 am by MRC »
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Me2005

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Re: My random solution to slow space games. In one sentence.
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2015, 01:05:39 pm »
Actually, that'd work really well. Especially with the inherant limitations of using computers and the un-funness of a hardcore space sim.

It'd be kinda like my shrunken systems idea - shrink a star system relative to your ship but leave planets/asteroids large so that there are hazards like crazy and visual contact is difficult to establish.

But on your idea, something that might make it really *work* as sci-fi semi-starship/submarines is to put it on some gas giant somewhere. You'd be piloting ships in the gas, going down low enough would make terrain appear and higher up there might be planetoids and floaty rocks. Speed would be lower and more intuitive ("higher powered engines required to go faster" instead of "lowish power but really long burn time required to go faster") because of friction in the atmosphere, it'd be hazy so fog settings and cloaking start to make sense, and people don't generally have a good mental grasp on the pressure in those things so you can kind of fake the fact that you'd be crushed no matter what at lower elevations.

I've read a short story about just such an environment before, can't remember who by. It was probably Asimov, but might have been anybody. Kind of a steampunky vibe IIRC; great floating battle-fortresses and lighter fast fighters. It'd be a really fun environment for sure.
But you were dead a thousand times. Hopeless encounters successfully won. A man long dead, grafted to machines your builders did not understand. You follow the path, fitting into an infinite pattern. Yours to manipulate, to create and rebuild.

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Czorio

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Re: My random solution to slow space games. In one sentence.
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2015, 01:38:31 pm »
The vistas like crippling darkness and more pure black. At least optimization won't be an issue due to low render distance.
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MRC

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Re: My random solution to slow space games. In one sentence.
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2015, 03:54:26 pm »
@Me2005

Would be nice to have an airship warfare game on a gas giant, or something akin to Venus since gas giant don't have much terrain. Guns of Icarus come close to this in some regards. I would have love it either a more modern setting or a more open world (Which was rumored to be coming up at some point).

My main argument in favor of submarines over airship would be the stronger presence of terrain. Anything that peak over the surface you can't avoid. And there's a lot of possibilities coming from the marine life. You could have whales get in the way of targeting, colossal squids stalking you in the depths, dolphins knocking your guns out of alignment for the hell of it. While we're at it why not smear fish food all over your hull to have a giant school of fishes follow you around, concealing you from the enemy. At the risk of then being savagely assaulted by hungry humpback whales.

You don't have vicious humpback whales crashing in you hull from beneath in space now do you?*

*If there is such thing a a game where your spaceship occasionally gets assaulted by whales, please direct me to it's store page ASAP.
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Me2005

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Re: My random solution to slow space games. In one sentence.
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2015, 02:49:26 pm »
@Me2005

Would be nice to have an airship warfare game on a gas giant, or something akin to Venus since gas giant don't have much terrain. Guns of Icarus come close to this in some regards. I would have love it either a more modern setting or a more open world (Which was rumored to be coming up at some point).

My main argument in favor of submarines over airship would be the stronger presence of terrain. Anything that peak over the surface you can't avoid. And there's a lot of possibilities coming from the marine life. ...

Who's to say there aren't giant floating monstorsities in a thick enough atmosphere? Or there aren't minecraft and Avatar-esque floating rocky environments? Or unheard of giant mountains and cliffs? Or entire moons floating within the envelope of the atmosphere? Or varied gasses such that the clouds themselves are, at times, impassible? And since it's a straight-up made up environment that is implausible but not impossible, you can do whatever you want. And the gas-giant nature makes it so the planet can be huge enough to feel like a space sim with a 'galaxy' of other places to visit. FTL? Just handled by a heavy-lifter jumping you to the highest atmosphere on a ballistic trajectory. Shoot, you can let the player go there and travel faster (because of low/no friction vs. the massive friction inside the atmosphere), but logically keep them out of true space exploration because they lack the engines for it. Or you can let them visit between the moons of such a planet, but prevent deep-space exploration for the same reasons.

"Tiering" the technology for progression would be easy too. Depending on your approach, bigger/more powerful ships are either skybound (too large to make work in the pressures of the atmosphere), groundbound (too heavy to lift out of atmosphere), or stuck to a strata (of whatever size!) in between (big enough to be buoyant but too big to fit engines to to get to space; too big to go down low). WMD's we've previously concerned ourselves with (ships having engines capable of fractions of C to be any fun getting around in are also capable of cracking planets) would go away - there's no need to travel at fractions of C. A few hundred mph would be fast most of the time, reasonably scaling to several thousand mph if you go low-orbital. Anyone trying to fire anything from orbit to the ground (or over great between-strata ranges in-atmosphere) would be hampered by the atmosphere (and space-whales), so smaller ships (fighters!) are necessary.

Man, this ticks alot of boxes. It could be really cool.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 02:52:32 pm by Me2005 »
But you were dead a thousand times. Hopeless encounters successfully won. A man long dead, grafted to machines your builders did not understand. You follow the path, fitting into an infinite pattern. Yours to manipulate, to create and rebuild.

I know who you are.

You are destiny.

MRC

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Re: My random solution to slow space games. In one sentence.
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2015, 05:37:13 pm »
I feel both have a different appeal. Airships-in-a-gas-giant does bets in a future fantasy setting with a somewhat epic and majestic feel to it. Where as Laser-submarine would work best in a semi-realistic sci-fi with a dark and creepy tone, never quite sure of what's creeping around you.

And now I want both.

But! What about a mix of the two?
« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 05:41:37 pm by MRC »
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Cy83r

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Re: My random solution to slow space games. In one sentence.
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2015, 08:29:37 am »
Sky nations on a turbulent Jovian Sky?  Yes, please.
Jibreel: Yeah but [Hufer] that's like [Axis] complaining that his Toyota Camry is stuck in the mud and you responding "Well my M1 Abrams doesn't seem to be having much trouble."

Me2005

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Re: My random solution to slow space games. In one sentence.
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2015, 11:07:10 am »
Sky nations on a turbulent Jovian Sky?  Yes, please.

Yeah, the visuals alone could be absolutely stunning. Like, epic-terrain minecraft levels of "wow" but huge.

But! What about a mix of the two?

One thing about submarines, they're basically the same as spaceships just built backwards (for pressure rather than vacuum). But you could have a 'both' type environment by having various gasses that solidify to liquids at some strata; solid-floating-ice-clouds you can't fly through, liquid layers and pockets of gases or liquids inside the other liquids; all kinds of fun things that make navigation challenging.
But you were dead a thousand times. Hopeless encounters successfully won. A man long dead, grafted to machines your builders did not understand. You follow the path, fitting into an infinite pattern. Yours to manipulate, to create and rebuild.

I know who you are.

You are destiny.

Cy83r

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Re: My random solution to slow space games. In one sentence.
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2015, 07:05:45 pm »
not to mention a hundred-miles-wide thunderstorm or super-hurricane boiling up out of the sulfide layer beneath you with very little warning in the strata's eddies

they say people always forget to look up, they also tend to forget to look down too

I live for those inevitable slow-motion "oh man, in two hours I'm totally fucked aren't I?" moments
Jibreel: Yeah but [Hufer] that's like [Axis] complaining that his Toyota Camry is stuck in the mud and you responding "Well my M1 Abrams doesn't seem to be having much trouble."

Me2005

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Re: My random solution to slow space games. In one sentence.
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2015, 10:47:03 am »
not to mention a hundred-miles-wide thunderstorm or super-hurricane boiling up out of the sulfide layer beneath you with very little warning in the strata's eddies

they say people always forget to look up, they also tend to forget to look down too

I live for those inevitable slow-motion "oh man, in two hours I'm totally fucked aren't I?" moments

And those strata-weather-changes are what make it perfectly reasonable to limit ship size/power in certain areas, while allowing the massive behemoth ships in other areas! "Oh, don't fly our StarCloudcruzer 10,000 down that low, we'll be wiped out by the lightning-mercury-hail!

Which brings me to the other awesome plausible thing about a giant - absolutely bonkers weather conditions. Metalic hail? Sure! Electrified metalic hail? Why not! Acid rain is pithy when you've got acid oceans! And they're floating in clouds of mercury! We don't know what's there, we've never been in such a large planet! Makes those wide-open skies of the upper strata feel that much nicer; at least until the Cloudcruzers and floating cities start training their weapons on you.
But you were dead a thousand times. Hopeless encounters successfully won. A man long dead, grafted to machines your builders did not understand. You follow the path, fitting into an infinite pattern. Yours to manipulate, to create and rebuild.

I know who you are.

You are destiny.

snakehead01

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Re: My random solution to slow space games. In one sentence.
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2015, 08:07:15 pm »
I live for those inevitable slow-motion "oh man, in two hours I'm totally screwed aren't I?" moments
Makes me kind of want to see a game like EVE only set in a gas giant
"SIR! I'VE JUST DROPPED THE THUN THA THUN!"
"YOU FOOL WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!"
*Unintelligible screaming followed by the sound of metal scraping metal and flesh ripping*

MRC

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Re: My random solution to slow space games. In one sentence.
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2015, 04:43:48 am »
@Me2005

Forget metalic hail! Theories state that the condition in gas giants should be intense enough so that thunderstorms can cause Diamond hail!

What's that in the distance? Is that a 5,000km tall, extremely high-pressure, wall of lightnings and razor-sharp diamond shards coming in at 2,000Km/h? Oh, it is...

"oh man, in two hours I'm totally fucked aren't I?"
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Me2005

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Re: My random solution to slow space games. In one sentence.
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2015, 11:26:15 am »
@Me2005

Forget metalic hail! Theories state that the condition in gas giants should be intense enough so that thunderstorms can cause Diamond hail!

See? This is exactly why a space-epic set on and around a gas giant would be so much fun. We've got no bloody ideal what's going on in there, it could be anything! So we can make up absolutely bonkers stuff that would be awesome/terrifying to fly around in and it's not necessarily untrue (magicking the crushing pressure away aside). Even if it is, it'd play nice with the old scifi golden age of moon men and canals on mars.

And there's no need for FTL of any kind. Travel can just be point-to-point "player flies here" and it'd work ok. Unintuitively, you'd go up to move faster, and once in orbit could reasonably reenter any part of the planet in a few (real-life) hours - in game this could be faked down to minutes. But you could also have all the orbital bodies such a planet would have - the 4-10 moon+ sized moons, and 40 or so smaller bodies, with 100-1,000's of space rocks; possibly enough to justify mining infinite numbers of them. Loading between strata could largely be logically through the clouds - you go up/down through the clouds (or entering the atmosphere at the orbit/high atmosphere strata) to go to another loaded environment.
But you were dead a thousand times. Hopeless encounters successfully won. A man long dead, grafted to machines your builders did not understand. You follow the path, fitting into an infinite pattern. Yours to manipulate, to create and rebuild.

I know who you are.

You are destiny.