Author Topic: Discussing about Space Engineers in various ways.  (Read 4303 times)

MRC

  • Founder
  • Knows dev CPR
  • *
  • Posts: 316
  • Mental breakdown in progress...
Discussing about Space Engineers in various ways.
« on: July 03, 2014, 07:20:25 pm »
I felt like chatting about Space Engineers, what we're learning from it, the do and don't that could be applied to BR.... Whatever really.

Now, I wouldn't start a random discussion like that for no reasons. What pushed me over the edge and made me want to talk about SE is, I have no clue what Space Engineer is trying to be anymore.

With the last update introducing factions, block ownership and "hacking" (of sort) I've gone from having a vague idea of what SE could be, to being clueless. The thing is that factions is a very PvP friendly system, where as the mining and building mechanics are extremely PvE like at this point, there's a conflict there.

With the extensive mining required and slow building process working together on a common project seems the best way to get anywhere at a decent rate, good for PvE. So it seem backward from them to introduce a system to split the players rather than one that unify them. On the other hand if some sort of PvP experience is their goal, the current mechanics and features are all the way off. It could be a big sandbox, but again the survival mode mechanics doesn't show it, though the sandbox mode got it pretty well.

So, I don't know anymore. If someone has some good infos on this I'm eager to hear about it. Otherwise what do you think of this? what are you speculations of Space Engineers end-goal as a game?
With love.  ~MRC

Czorio

  • Founder
  • Residential nutbag
  • *
  • Posts: 685
    • Youtube Channel
Re: Discussing about Space Engineers in various ways.
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2014, 07:55:29 am »
I think what you are seeing here is a bit of a downside of Early Access. People wanted it, and the devs implemented it without really thinking about how it will fit in the grand scheme of things.

I haven't played SE in a while though.
"If you're in an equal fight, your tactics suck."

http://www.youtube.com/user/czorio4

Voltaire

  • Founder
  • *
  • Posts: 183
Re: Discussing about Space Engineers in various ways.
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2014, 08:00:21 am »
MRC, [understandably] I think the SE developers are trying to placate the different user groups.   Those who want PvP, PvE and survival or feature X from game Y.  I don't think anything they have done so far prevents any of the ones you mentioned from co-existing. 

Personally I think they have should have pushed for mod support, however holding back on mod support does at least give them a weekly release cycle with easy hits that placate the majority who don't know the difference in work involved in adding a colour picker and speeding up physics. 

I garee with Czorio - it because people want / expect a finished game when it is infact just alpha.

MRC

  • Founder
  • Knows dev CPR
  • *
  • Posts: 316
  • Mental breakdown in progress...
Re: Discussing about Space Engineers in various ways.
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2014, 11:41:51 am »
I think what you are seeing here is a bit of a downside of Early Access. People wanted it, and the devs implemented it without really thinking about how it will fit in the grand scheme of things.

I don't really know if this implementation should be attributed to pressure from the community alone, or the lack of a long-term plan for the game.

From the "about" section of the official site...
"We decided to only talk about features actually present in the game (fully finished or work-in-progress).
We won't speak about planned features, our ideas, future dates, road map, etc."

It's a really strange move from the devs to refuse to reveal their plan for the game. Isn't that the point of early access? To expose your plan in order to get support to execute it.

MRC, [understandably] I think the SE developers are trying to placate the different user groups.   Those who want PvP, PvE and survival or feature X from game Y.  I don't think anything they have done so far prevents any of the ones you mentioned from co-existing.

They must have missed "How NOT to design a game 101"'s first rule, listen to people on the internet. If they want to have both PvE and PvP they might have to separate them and/or seriously rebuild the survival-style mining and building.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2014, 03:18:35 pm by MRC »
With love.  ~MRC

Bladecatcher

  • Founder
  • *
  • Posts: 459
Re: Discussing about Space Engineers in various ways.
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2014, 09:14:50 pm »
I completely agree with you. I like how the mining, long build times, and small player inventories really encourages you to build small ships with specific purposes like mining and building. Especially if you want to build a large ship. You'll need a mining ship, a construction ship, and a platform with cargo containers, a refinery, and an assembler, not to mention the system of conveyor tubes that will connect everything. The problem is, there is no reason to do ANY OF THIS, because large ships are useless! The only reason to build them that the game gives you is to crash them into other ships, and you can just do that in creative mode.

What they should be doing is focusing on world building stuff, like different sectors and procedurally generated asteroids so players can use their ships to explore, hostile NPCs so that players would need a large ship to keep them safe, maybe a monetary or trading system to encourage players to explore and mine...THEN focus on smaller things like clans and PvP.

Somehow, SE reminds me of playing with toy trucks in a sandbox as a kid, and I like that. I'm just not sure if the devs will be able to turn that into a game. Man, I sure wish there was a game out there that was like SE, but focused less on the actual building of ships, and more on making them seem "alive" and having adventures in them. :P

MRC

  • Founder
  • Knows dev CPR
  • *
  • Posts: 316
  • Mental breakdown in progress...
Re: Discussing about Space Engineers in various ways.
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2014, 11:26:01 pm »
I agree that large ships should have a more important role, but I think they need to do something to allow us to build them at a decent speed first. What I'd like to see is a blueprint mode that put down a "ghost" of the ship you want to build so other players can see it and help with the construction. Assuming people still want to cooperate with the whole faction thing.

Then more focus on exploration should make them useful. It would be much more convenient to have a large ship to haul the small ships and equipments across long distances.

Quote
Man, I sure wish there was a game out there that was like SE, but focused less on the actual building of ships, and more on making them seem "alive" and having adventures in them. :P

That sure sound like something I would buy.  :o
With love.  ~MRC

Bladecatcher

  • Founder
  • *
  • Posts: 459
Re: Discussing about Space Engineers in various ways.
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2014, 12:11:09 pm »
I think being able to place blocks as frames before you construct them sort of fills that role, but you're right. We should be able to build a ship in creative mode, save it, then load it into survival as a sort of blueprint. Actually, I think not being able to save individual ships is a pretty major flaw that should have been fixed a while ago, definitely before clans or functioning rotors.

Thadius Faran

  • Founder
  • *
  • Posts: 964
  • Leader of the S.D.I and CEO of 301st industries
    • 301st Corp
Re: Discussing about Space Engineers in various ways.
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2014, 05:31:28 pm »
Their meteor system is living hell!
If your going to use military force you ought to use overwhelming military force. All war is immoral and if you let that bother you your not a good soldier.

Commander Jackson

  • Founder
  • Lazy dev E.M.T.
  • *
  • Posts: 772
  • Ex astris, scientia
Re: Discussing about Space Engineers in various ways.
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2014, 05:38:16 pm »
Their meteor system is living hell!

I have never played Space Engineers.  I have only seen videos.  Their meteor system looked like fun...
Gabe has a wraith? That explains so much.

MRC

  • Founder
  • Knows dev CPR
  • *
  • Posts: 316
  • Mental breakdown in progress...
Re: Discussing about Space Engineers in various ways.
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2014, 06:55:38 pm »
I'd like the meteors to be physical objects rather than projectiles. You would get more interesting reactions to impact.

Also what's with the re-entry effects? You're in space!

Ooooorrr, the SE universe is actually full of air. :o
That would explain why meteors have re-entry effect, why all the iron is oxidized, why sound is traveling trough space and why we have a speed limit (it's the terminal velocity).
With love.  ~MRC

Rainman

  • Founder
  • *
  • Posts: 618
  • Loremaster
Re: Discussing about Space Engineers in various ways.
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2014, 03:03:41 am »
Space Air. (Ether?)
SCIENCE!
...IN SPAAAAAAAACE!

Erebus

  • Founder
  • *
  • Posts: 602
Re: Discussing about Space Engineers in various ways.
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2014, 07:54:57 pm »
Space Engineers is a nice game, but it concentrates way to much on the "Engineering" part. I still follow Blockade Runner because I hope Blockade Runner is going to focus more on the "Battle" part.

Aaron

  • BR Developer
  • Creative Director, ZanMgt
  • *****
  • Posts: 2018
  • Available on the IRC from 9:00am to 5:00pm (EST)
    • http://www.zanmgt.com
Re: Discussing about Space Engineers in various ways.
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2014, 01:21:56 am »
Yeah, SE does a lot of things we thought about doing early on but have since moved away from to streamline the core mechanics.  I.e. Early on we thought about having BR be closer towards a physics playground, but that's not quite our taste. =|
Stop by the IRC and say Hi! -- Online Dev Chat

Me2005

  • Founder
  • Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 2104
Re: Discussing about Space Engineers in various ways.
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2014, 11:21:03 am »
Space Engineers is a nice game, but it concentrates way to much on the "Engineering" part. I still follow Blockade Runner because I hope Blockade Runner is going to focus more on the "Battle" part.

I feel like some focus on the engineering part is inevitable - building ships is complex no matter how you try to simplify it. But we should at least have the option of essentially just loading ships into the game, so someone else could be doing the designing and those that want to fly/fight pick a plan and have it manufactured for them.

Thinking about it, I'm most excited for the possibility of an organic critical hit system - shooting a ship and blowing out their engines causing them to be unable to maneuver; or getting a lucky critical fuel tank hit and causing a chain reaction that disables them. It wouldn't be that the game determined these things should happen as much as the ship's design and my targeting.
But you were dead a thousand times. Hopeless encounters successfully won. A man long dead, grafted to machines your builders did not understand. You follow the path, fitting into an infinite pattern. Yours to manipulate, to create and rebuild.

I know who you are.

You are destiny.

Cy83r

  • Founder
  • *
  • Posts: 1254
  • It's Shooowtime!
Re: Discussing about Space Engineers in various ways.
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2014, 06:47:03 pm »
I think SE tries to do that as well, but watching recent videos it seems the design focus is being complicated, though maybe not exactly hampered, by the crafting system for each block.
Jibreel: Yeah but [Hufer] that's like [Axis] complaining that his Toyota Camry is stuck in the mud and you responding "Well my M1 Abrams doesn't seem to be having much trouble."