Author Topic: Star Trek vs Star Wars vs Battlestar Galactica  (Read 36917 times)

Thadius Faran

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Re: Star Trek vs Star Wars vs Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2013, 04:18:49 pm »
Actually by Endor three were built and one on production.

The Executor-Vaders ship

The Eclipse-Armed with a mini death star beam. Later stolen by Tiber Zhan

The Vengance-Another Exector class

Even if they stunned the city they cant keep them stunned forever.

Those walkers were scout walkers! Plus those were big trees. What they would use would be At-Ats At-ST AT-TT AT-RT AT-TE and a couple of others. The force counters Q. Besides that race is lame.

ST simply cant win. They arent a war series. They have less industrial capacity and population. They dont have big enough ships. They lack any ground based forces.
If your going to use military force you ought to use overwhelming military force. All war is immoral and if you let that bother you your not a good soldier.

kaptnkrunch

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Re: Star Trek vs Star Wars vs Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2013, 04:21:32 pm »
Actually by Endor three were built and one on production.

The Executor-Vaders ship

The Eclipse-Armed with a mini death star beam. Later stolen by Tiber Zhan

The Vengance-Another Exector class

Even if they stunned the city they cant keep them stunned forever.

Those walkers were scout walkers! Plus those were big trees. What they would use would be At-Ats At-ST AT-TT AT-RT AT-TE and a couple of others. The force counters Q. Besides that race is lame.

ST simply cant win. They arent a war series. They have less industrial capacity and population. They dont have big enough ships. They lack any ground based forces.

Your depth of star wars knowledge is clearly on par with my 40k lore. I lack this level of SW fluff knowledge. I commend you!

Czorio

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Re: Star Trek vs Star Wars vs Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2013, 04:23:14 pm »
The force counters Q.

I'd dispute that if this entire thread wasn't incredibly mind numbing. but a summary: Q is an omnipotent being, capable of everything he wants. The force allows a lot of power, but not to one person at the same time.
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Thadius Faran

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Re: Star Trek vs Star Wars vs Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2013, 05:21:13 pm »
You'd be surprised. Bastila's battle meditation allowed her to make ships faster and stronger. Darth Niphilus used the force to literally drain entire planets of peoples life to make himself live longer. In one case the Jedi attempted to meet and discuss how to beat him. By gathering such a large group of force adepts the planet was like an all you can eat buffet. He drained all the lives on the planet and even the planet itself. The only reason he was killed is because the player in KOTOR 2 killed him. With enough knowledge you can do anything with the force. Also thank you kaptn.
If your going to use military force you ought to use overwhelming military force. All war is immoral and if you let that bother you your not a good soldier.

Me2005

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Re: Star Trek vs Star Wars vs Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2013, 07:26:27 pm »
You'd be surprised. Bastila's battle meditation allowed her to make ships faster and stronger. Darth Niphilus used the force to literally drain entire planets of peoples life to make himself live longer. In one case the Jedi attempted to meet and discuss how to beat him. By gathering such a large group of force adepts the planet was like an all you can eat buffet. He drained all the lives on the planet and even the planet itself. The only reason he was killed is because the player in KOTOR 2 killed him. With enough knowledge you can do anything with the force. Also thank you kaptn.

Don't bring Q into this - he does whatever he wants and is really outside of either universe. It's most likely him who has brought the SW/ST forces together to fight for his enjoyment; there is no way he is going to fight for either side. No number of Jedi could defeat him unless he chose to be defeated; but neither could anyone from the ST universe prevent him from doing anything he felt like doing. If anything, they'd probably only (accidentally) persuade him to wipe out the ST universe in favor of the SW one because there is more living mass in SW (trillions of humans at least - I could see Picard saying something about how Q should save humanity and Q replying "You know, you're right about that;" and then *poof* no more ST universe).
But you were dead a thousand times. Hopeless encounters successfully won. A man long dead, grafted to machines your builders did not understand. You follow the path, fitting into an infinite pattern. Yours to manipulate, to create and rebuild.

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Commander Jackson

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Re: Star Trek vs Star Wars vs Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2013, 08:42:25 pm »
Q wouldn't just wipe out ST universe. He'd probably just create several alternate timelines in each he would do something different. In my opinion he'd keep the ST universe around so that he can keep bothering Picard.

The force doesn't control Q. The Q are basicly invulnerable gods.  Of the many omnipotent races in the ST univers cannon the Q are the most powerful.
Gabe has a wraith? That explains so much.

Strait Raider

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Re: Star Trek vs Star Wars vs Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2013, 10:34:20 pm »
Check your sources. At the height of the Empire, there was an average of one SSD per sector group, which places their number somewhere around 100, more or less 1 SSD for every 250 ISDs.

Though a great many were destroyed as the Empire crumbled, many were retained by the New Republic, and new classes of Star Dreadnaughts continued to be commissioned for fleet command ships, though never again on the scale that the Empire utilized them.

While I appreciate what the ST-v-SW site has to say, I don't see how it draws a conclusion that Federation ships outgun ISDs, when they estimate main phaser banks to be at best 20-50 MT per shot (though the 1-10 MT estimate seems more likely, given that TNG5 insinuated that a 0.012 MT shot required maximum power from the entire ship.  ::)

Whatever, let's swing for the fences and say the Galaxy class main phaser banks can output a 50MT blast. She has two main phaser banks, though both are not generally observed to fire simultaneously, but again we'll give the benefit of the doubt and say it's possible, main battery simultaneous shot - 100MT.

That seems pretty big compared to the estimated 1.5 MT (It's 1.6, but whatever) from the largest observed asteroid vaporized by an ISD. That is, until you realize that the shot came from the underside of the ISD, which means that the shot came from either a light or medium turbolaser battery. Let's say conservatively that there are 100 medium guns on an ISD, (very conservatively, given that there are 64 heavy guns on an Imperial-II) this would mean that the (very conservative) blast output of the ISD's medium batteries would be 1.5 x the blast output of a Galaxy Class's (absolute best-case scenario) primary phaser banks.

One must wonder at the output of a heavy turbolaser, considering that a 1.6 MT blast came from a battery not even visible from a moderate distance. ;)

dracorotor

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Re: Star Trek vs Star Wars vs Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2013, 10:38:51 pm »

Quantum Torpedoes V Photon Torpedos
Quantum Wins

And if you want to bring in Omniscentient Beings into this...
Q
And ST wins.



Their ships can set their Star Ship grade phasers to stun and shoot a city from orbit.

The main reason why this isn't regularly employed is because ST planets use planetary shields more often than SW.

They have the Argo.(Star Trek Nemisis)

Hand phasers auto target. Blasters don't.

Hand phaser have more options than blasters.
Example
Stun: Phaser and Blaster
Kill: Phaser and Blaster
Cut: Phaser
Heat: Phaser
Vaporize: Phaser
Energey Wall thingy: Phaser
Auto-Target: Phaser
Incinerate: Phaser and Blaster
Burst Fire: Phaser and Blaster


If you were to ask me I'd say that blasters provide harder hits for each shot but phasers are much more versitile.

Personal shield bubbles are not unheard of in Star Trek.

Tricorders are hand held scanners with more scanning ability than any starship in Star Wars

And Just because warp strafing occurs mostly in TOS it doesn't mean that they won't use it 100 years later.

The UFoP stuff appears to be quality over quantity.

They only had 1 SSD.

Point by point:
Photonic fusion blasts are plenty powerful, and are meant to punch tight holes in shields as much as do damage to the ship itself. Mostly the big ships in star wars use concussion missiles, which are basically like little bunker-buster nukes.

Q sits back and laughs. He doesn't care about humans beyond entertainment. One universe is as good as another for him.

Star Wars planets all have planetary shields if they're major population centers. They just don't bring it up in the movies.

Seriously? dune buggy shuttles outdo over a dozen types of walkers and hover tanks?

Some blasters CAN auto-target. E-11s cannot, but that's because the empire is cheap and can afford to waste the troops. They also come with abilities ranging from heating, cutting, flame thrower, grenade launcher, stun web launcher, gas dispensing, dart shooting, grapple hooks, and on and on and on.

Personal shields are used in Star Wars but rarely, as well. They're expensive. Some look like whole body shields like the life belts in the ST animated series, and others are like the hand-held gungan shields. Every scifi seems to have something like that.

In the SW universe, there are sensor devices equivalent to tricorders and med scanners that are handheld as well. Even BSG has a lot of this sort of thing on Caprica and the other home planets.

As I said before, you strafe a stationary target while at warp and you have miliseconds (If you use a computer AND have outstanding range on the phasors), not long enough to do an attack, and no starship in the Trek universe carries enough torpedos to kill one of the Mon Cal cruisers or a Star Destroyer. No way to do in a fleet from ultra-long range. And as I've seen brought up in another forum, the force precognition all force wielders have allows them to respond to your warp strafing before you get there, so they'd have their shields up and their weapons readied. Even match, I'd call it.

Finally, you're WAY off on the count of SSDs. VADER only owned one. The empire has several dozen, if you count all their fleets, as well as the two superweapon SSDs Eclipse and Eclipse II, which combine ships almost twice as long as Vaders with death star lasers on the bow, gravity wells (generally used in SW as a means of ripping ships out of hyperspace, but also usable as an offensive weapon by savvy crews), and a force-based cloaking method in addition to a standard cloaking device.


You have 6 movies to go on, but there are over 300 novels, 4 other movies, several TV series and many comic series which are all canon and show all of these things. Wookipedia can help you out with a lot of this, you should take a look. It's good about citation so you can find the source, too, if you're curious.


EDIT:

Actually by Endor three were built and one on production.

The Executor-Vaders ship

The Eclipse-Armed with a mini death star beam. Later stolen by Tiber Zhan

The Vengance-Another Exector class

Even if they stunned the city they cant keep them stunned forever.

Those walkers were scout walkers! Plus those were big trees. What they would use would be At-Ats At-ST AT-TT AT-RT AT-TE and a couple of others. The force counters Q. Besides that race is lame.

ST simply cant win. They arent a war series. They have less industrial capacity and population. They dont have big enough ships. They lack any ground based forces.
Good list, but you missed one. Lusankya. Sure, she was buried in the cityscape of Coruscant at the time, but she WAS built.

Oh, and Strait Raider, I know your sources, but they're misleading. Not all sectors are created equal, so while the core, colonies and inner rim fleets has SSDs and other large command craft of similar performance or size, other areas, like around Hutt Space, would pick an ISD as the command ship. Devestator, the original Iron Fist and Chimera for instance. And areas with their own governmental structure, like the Corellian System, have smaller forces of Imp ships as well.

That's why I say the Federation could make this work. They can build an alliance of the separate groups to gang up with SW and ST tech combined against the Empire, Sith or whatever evil group is in charge when they arrive, and can build those alliances and barter those deals without the empire finding out until it's too late.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2013, 11:02:29 pm by dracorotor »
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Niwantaw

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Re: Star Trek vs Star Wars vs Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2013, 11:07:28 pm »
Nah. He's going with his site that says anything that isn't in the SW films is not counted.


(seriously. anyone actually bother looking at it? It's so blatantly biased it hurts. At least stardestory.net actually looks at /all/ the material on each side that they can find)






on the subject of the galaxy class's firepower: according to the ST technical manual the output of all the galaxy's phaser banks combined is 1.02GW
(23.18MW per emitter)
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Czorio

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Re: Star Trek vs Star Wars vs Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2013, 04:02:54 am »
People are forgetting that a galaxy class is over half smaller than a ISD (600m iirc), so if you'd pit 2/3 galaxies against an ISD, I reckon tha the galaxy wins. But I also think we are losing track of other classes, the nebula for instance. That thing can mount 8 extra photon launchers.
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Niwantaw

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Re: Star Trek vs Star Wars vs Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #40 on: May 22, 2013, 08:53:57 am »
the thing is is that there isn't two or three galaxies for every ISD. It's more like ten ISDs for every galaxy

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Holy Thunder

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Re: Star Trek vs Star Wars vs Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #41 on: May 22, 2013, 09:48:45 am »
But ISDs, according to the movie, have laughable accuracy and relatively little effect. And they're remarkably less maneuvarable than Star Trek ships. Star Trek phasers, on the other hand, are pinpoint accurate, and ISDs wouldn't be able to avoid a torpedo barrage.

Although, I'd much prefer to see a Sovereign taking on 2-3 ISD's. 
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dracorotor

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Re: Star Trek vs Star Wars vs Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2013, 01:16:33 pm »
Where did you get the idea that an ISD has bad accuracy? You rarely even see them shoot, and when they do, they hit their targets.

I will grant that they're slow to maneuver, but that's not a huge issue because of their wide range of weapons arrayed all over the hulls.

Sovereigns do have a better survivability, but think of an ISD as a triangular borg cube. It's just a huge mass without the easily-hit warp drives that usually allow ST ships to blow each other up seconds after dropping the shields. Sovereign class ships can't take on a single borg cube alone, why would they do better against a Star Destroyer?

I don't know why people think they could do a one-on-one of their ships, it's like pitting a SWAT truck against an Abrams tank. They each are advanced and ideal for their chosen tasks, but those tasks are not the same, so they can't be matched against each other evenly.
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universeboy4

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Re: Star Trek vs Star Wars vs Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2013, 01:46:49 pm »
 Don't take the E-D as a federation combat ship. Take something like the defiant class. NOW we're talking. The defiant stood a few direct hits from borg weapons and is really manueverable. It could run rings around a Star Destoyer whilst blasting out chunks of it with its weapons. It has:

Dual phaser pulse cannons
Dual forward quantum torpedo launchers
A single aft quantum torpedo launcher.
A side mounted beam phaser.

Even if you drop the shields on it (which take a hell of a beating) you still have the ablative armour. There was an episode in ST:DS9 where the defiant drops shields for well over a minute to transport survivors from a cardassian ship. They face two Klingon BoPs and a half strength Klingon heavy cruiser. They leave the battlefield with only light-moderate damage (aft launchers, a couple of ablative armour sections and the cloaking device down)
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Thadius Faran

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Re: Star Trek vs Star Wars vs Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #44 on: May 22, 2013, 01:50:39 pm »
Who Here votes to remove battlestar and replace them with star gate?
If your going to use military force you ought to use overwhelming military force. All war is immoral and if you let that bother you your not a good soldier.