Author Topic: Galactic War: Meta-Thread  (Read 24266 times)

Thadius Faran

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Re: Galactic War: Meta-Thread
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2013, 10:43:14 am »
So dead?
If your going to use military force you ought to use overwhelming military force. All war is immoral and if you let that bother you your not a good soldier.

Holy Thunder

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Re: Galactic War: Meta-Thread
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2013, 08:38:55 am »
Good to see another post in the RP threat. Thought I was alone there for a bit.  :o
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Me2005

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Re: Galactic War: Meta-Thread
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2013, 01:18:49 pm »
LOL @ new thread order, thanks for cleaning up Aleric  ;D

Quote
We should work on a schedule, like one due Wed another due Friday.  Or something.

Schedule will be something like actions due monday/wed-thurs. That'll give you guys the weekend to post. I'll try to keep up, but if they're all in in time, I should have the map up before the next actions are due.

"By (whatever day)" would mean that your actions are posted early enough on the day of that they're there before I check. Preferably, you'll have your post in before the day they're due. I'll give some leeway in actions (as I've said, you can give me multiple actions if you expect to miss a deadline), but I will update the map without you and you may be drawing my wrath by frequently posting late (which would mean more bad stuff happening to you ;D).

I've decided though that if someone hasn't posted, I will use all of their actions toward whatever research they have ongoing. If they don't have any research going on, they'll likely loose the actions.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2013, 01:29:10 pm by Me2005 »
But you were dead a thousand times. Hopeless encounters successfully won. A man long dead, grafted to machines your builders did not understand. You follow the path, fitting into an infinite pattern. Yours to manipulate, to create and rebuild.

I know who you are.

You are destiny.

Komrade

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Re: Galactic War: Meta-Thread
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2013, 11:26:49 pm »
That seems fair and reasonable.

Interstellar Socialist Organization: Saving the universe one capitalist bastage at a time!

Axis48

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Re: Galactic War: Meta-Thread
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2013, 01:17:34 am »
So, I was looking at the way fleet combat is played out, and while it is relatively simple, it is pretty paper thin, biggest fleet size always wins. But there are so many factors in a space battle that just a flat fleet doesn't account for. Many times a smaller force has prevailed with sheer luck or good planning, and I think our little game can reflect that.

What I propose is simple, instead of having the highest number win, we use what we already do for everything else, a d6. Whenever a fleet engages another fleet or a planet you take the fleet score or system score and roll that many dice(Or in a systems case twice that many dice.). For example:

A 4 fleet and a 6 fleet meet in battle, the 4 fleet rolls and gets 3, 5, 1, 3 which totals out to 12. The 6 fleet rolls and gets a 6, 5, 1, 3, 4, 2 which totals out to 21, so the 6 fleet wins and the 4 fleet suffers losses.

In another case with the same two fleets, the 4 fleet rolls 4, 5, 6, 4 totalling out to 19. The 6 fleet rolls and gets 2, 3, 1, 1, 4, 5 totalling out to 16, in this case the the 4 fleet wins and the 6 fleet suffers losses.

This would give some chance and danger in the galaxy, even to super strong fleet sizes, because there is a chance they can get unlucky, so players will be more tactical and not just have one super crazy fleet going around that is undefeatable strictly because its size.

This offers lots of new options for technology too. Maybe a 'focused laser' research makes damage More reliable, so that whenever you roll a 1 or a 6 it is bumped to a 2 or a 5 respectively! This also allows for modifiers, does a ship have a certain type of armor? Maybe it reduces an enemies dice score by 2 points, or do they have missile tracking, making the losses that you produce on a victory much more significant?

All and all I think we can add some depth, and maybe change some rules, thoughts?
« Last Edit: May 07, 2013, 01:20:08 am by Axis48 »

Me2005

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Re: Galactic War: Meta-Thread
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2013, 12:13:46 pm »
All and all I think we can add some depth, and maybe change some rules, thoughts?

That is a good idea; I had considered it but wasn't sure how well it'd work - I don't want to give a massive advantage to someone because of a good/bad roll (if I used straight d6's, you could have 6x your fleet strength while the opponent has only 1x!). Maybe I'll look into a more minor roll & receive +.5/-.5 or +d6 to the fleet strength on combat. Rolling a bucket of dice, besides being something I don't want to do, doesn't really affect the result in theory anyway - it should average a 3.5 result. It hasn't happened yet, so I don't feel bad modifying it, but I'd feel better about allowing a tech that has a random effect like that and leaving the current engagement rules as is.

That said though, it's not as straight forward as the map and fleet strength show. Technology is coming into play, and players who research ship-related technologies have modifiers applied to their fleet strength (same with systems). I don't think there's one of you who doesn't have any modifier to their ships, and that'll change even more as the game progresses. So when things actually start shaking down, you'll probably be surprised by the result.

I should mention my planet-warfare setup while we're on the topic of combat - Currently, planets get an advantage fighting ships, so it's not SS vs FS and see who wins; it's more like SS x2 vs FS and see who wins. The reasoning is twofold: First, and most important, system strength doesn't (always) take one turn to upgrade, while fleets do. Second, the fleets are represented as collections of ships plying the stars and attacking each other, but they're not optimized for planetary conquest, especially when the planets involved could have populations in the billions and the systems involved have multiple planets, stations, moons, shipyards, and other objects present. Destroying all that takes quite a bit of resources, and to conquer it you'd need more fleet strength.
But you were dead a thousand times. Hopeless encounters successfully won. A man long dead, grafted to machines your builders did not understand. You follow the path, fitting into an infinite pattern. Yours to manipulate, to create and rebuild.

I know who you are.

You are destiny.

Thadius Faran

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Re: Galactic War: Meta-Thread
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2013, 09:54:42 am »
I believe one more day before rounds up. Who hasnt posted yet?
If your going to use military force you ought to use overwhelming military force. All war is immoral and if you let that bother you your not a good soldier.

Me2005

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Re: Galactic War: Meta-Thread
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2013, 11:41:39 am »
I believe one more day before rounds up. Who hasnt posted yet?

Quote
Waiting on Komrade, The Error, and Jackson for actions.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 01:38:06 pm by Me2005 »
But you were dead a thousand times. Hopeless encounters successfully won. A man long dead, grafted to machines your builders did not understand. You follow the path, fitting into an infinite pattern. Yours to manipulate, to create and rebuild.

I know who you are.

You are destiny.

Commander Jackson

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Re: Galactic War: Meta-Thread
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2013, 11:40:07 pm »
I got it! I posted it at 11:30 pm on Wednesday.
Gabe has a wraith? That explains so much.

Holy Thunder

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Re: Galactic War: Meta-Thread
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2013, 03:47:27 pm »
@Thadius--FS = Fleet Strength.
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Hufer

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Re: Galactic War: Meta-Thread
« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2013, 04:10:38 pm »
Do fleets repair per turn normally or do actions need to be spent into repairing them? A repair rate of 10%/turn would sound fair or 1 action = 2 repaired strength but I wouldn't think 1 action = 1 repair would make sense as it would be just as easy to make new ships as it would be to patch holes in old ones by that rule.

Me2005

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Re: Galactic War: Meta-Thread
« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2013, 04:43:21 pm »
Do fleets repair per turn normally or do actions need to be spent into repairing them? A repair rate of 10%/turn would sound fair or 1 action = 2 repaired strength but I wouldn't think 1 action = 1 repair would make sense as it would be just as easy to make new ships as it would be to patch holes in old ones by that rule.

Hmm.... How to best explain this...

The mechanical intent is that 1 FS = 1 fleet/ship/whatever, and doesn't need repairs; 1 unmodified player fleet vs. 1 alien fleet results in 0 fleets remaining in the system. It's supposed to be an arbitrary unit of strength, and losses aren't 'repaired' as such.

Depending on how you choose to RP, your FS might represent 1 ship, one combat group, one armada, or a single weapon-turret on one of your fighters. It'd make sense from an RP perspective to have FS repair at some rate if you had higher FS-cost ships, but mechanically, any damage to an individual point of FS is ignored. (you have 2 FS in the above battle; one of them is lost completely, but the other, thematically/in RP, might have sustained damage. This is replaced from the destroyed FS's survivors, repaired  before the next turn, or whatever.)

So in your specific situation, it'd make sense for you to repair your FS 12-ship. However, mechanically, that doesn't happen automatically, since I could have an entire fleet that is worth only 1 FS (Komrade does, or at least, he hasn't said that there are individual ships worth more than 1 FS each IIRC). I spent an action building the fleet, and if that fleet is lost in combat, I spend another action building a new one; I don't get to repair it for free. And as I've actually already given you a healthy boost to your final FS, I don't think I feel good about bending the rule further in this case.

Verdict: It'll continue to cost 1 AP per FS you construct.

Technology research may allow that to change; however, even Holy Thunder (who has repair as a special ability) needs to pay AP to build/rebuild fleets; his ability to repair is abstracted in my mechanics as his fleets & planets being more resilient (getting a modifier).

I suppose the tech that would do it would be something like the "Allied War Machine" in Company of Heroes - your total fleet strength is automatically rebuilt at your base at some rate when you loose it. That's the only way I could keep track of such a thing, by logging the peak strength and keeping it at that no matter what. That'd be more of a 'displace' mechanic like Diplomacy though, and would probably be best balanced by requiring you guys to have the systems to support your FS (each system supports some number of FS, if you loose a system you'll loose the extra). As this game is already under way with the simpler "#FS = #Damage to enemy FS mechanic," I don't think I should change the combat mechanic, but you're free to discuss researching the technology to keep FS high. It'd probably be costly (no less than 12 AP to research) and might be a permanent drain (-1AP/20 FS or something, but some portion of fleets lost are built at home base).

Sorry if that got lengthy, I'm trying to explain it in as many ways possible to cover possible misinterpretations.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 04:53:03 pm by Me2005 »
But you were dead a thousand times. Hopeless encounters successfully won. A man long dead, grafted to machines your builders did not understand. You follow the path, fitting into an infinite pattern. Yours to manipulate, to create and rebuild.

I know who you are.

You are destiny.

Thadius Faran

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Re: Galactic War: Meta-Thread
« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2013, 05:30:00 pm »
Well I suppose the SDI scout fleet has an fs of 5 The patrol fleet has one of 8
If your going to use military force you ought to use overwhelming military force. All war is immoral and if you let that bother you your not a good soldier.

Commander Jackson

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Re: Galactic War: Meta-Thread
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2013, 08:56:29 pm »
Regarding my weapons research into utilizing Energy Transfer Beams, the result i had in mind is basically my ships can transfer energy from target (enemy) ship to boost our own power.
How would this effect combat for me?
Gabe has a wraith? That explains so much.

Me2005

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Re: Galactic War: Meta-Thread
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2013, 12:52:35 pm »
Regarding my weapons research into utilizing Energy Transfer Beams, the result i had in mind is basically my ships can transfer energy from target (enemy) ship to boost our own power.
How would this effect combat for me?

It'll probably just be a ship-weapon modifier. 4-turn research time, you can upgrade it basically as much as you want.

Main Rules Post updated:
(Section 2 - AP)
Quote
-2C) Additional AP can be earned
--2C.1) Colonizing new systems
--2C.2) Upgrading existing systems
--2C.3) Upgrading system-level or production-related tech
-2D) Additional AP can be lost
--2D.1) Having fewer systems than the other players
--2D.2) Having lower quality systems than the other players
--2D.3) Loosing the technology-race

Basically, keep developing, expanding, and building and you'll keep your AP level up. Stop doing that and it'll go down. Simple (or not  ;D) as that.

To expand on that, if you have more AP than everyone else, and they catch up to you in technology, system strength, or other factors; you may loose your extra AP. Keep researching and expanding to keep the AP advantage you have, since that's what having more than 4 represents. For those with less, develop more and once you get close I'll upgrade you to full-statehood. Full states won't ever have less than 4 to spend, regardless of how backwards they become.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 07:25:20 pm by Me2005 »
But you were dead a thousand times. Hopeless encounters successfully won. A man long dead, grafted to machines your builders did not understand. You follow the path, fitting into an infinite pattern. Yours to manipulate, to create and rebuild.

I know who you are.

You are destiny.