Author Topic: Battleship Craft--A great BR Parallel  (Read 11676 times)

Thadius Faran

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Re: Battleship Craft--A great BR Parallel
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2013, 03:35:42 pm »
Unfortunetly this kindle is all I have.
If your going to use military force you ought to use overwhelming military force. All war is immoral and if you let that bother you your not a good soldier.

Me2005

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Re: Battleship Craft--A great BR Parallel
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2013, 05:07:07 pm »
Other than Ad-hoc, I'm not sure how to setup a specific match? I can PM you my IGN, but I'm not sure when I could *guaranteed* get on line for a battle.

I'm also 100% sure you just want to take advantage of my not knowing how to use AA properly, and thus stomp me with your now aircraft-carrying battleship.  ;D

@ Thadius - that is incredibly sad, however, as I've mentioned you shouldn't sweat it too much. If the game takes off, it'll be more cross platform, and right now there are several things I don't like about it: needing to grind to get different parts; the aiming/firing system, while elegant, is not very precise/clear about what I'm aiming at (did I aim at the ship and miss, or did the shells go where I tapped?); the hydrodyamics are wonky at best (I have/had one hull that went faster with a block missing out of the bottom for no obvious reason); the controls (for me anyway) are really touchy (can't steer without the camera spinning wildly...); the missions are terribly grindy and usually just a straight-up slugfest (I stick the throttle all the way up and start firing on the opponent on all the duals up to level 8, where I do the same thing but dodge part way through because he's got torpedoes, and then do the same thing again for the other duels- they need to happen where there's some terrain. Having real 'missions' instead of duels would be nice too (go sink this ship in a convoy, protect this ship, blow up that island, etc.)); and the balance of the game is basically broken (carriers/subs are unstoppable, frigates/dd's/pt boats are basically worthless unless you know what you're up against starting out, fighters/dive bombers/worthwhile sub killing/AA weapons cost real-money, and since you're basically only able to dual eachother, there's no using one to counter the other or use fleet-support like IRL).
« Last Edit: May 06, 2013, 05:22:50 pm by Me2005 »
But you were dead a thousand times. Hopeless encounters successfully won. A man long dead, grafted to machines your builders did not understand. You follow the path, fitting into an infinite pattern. Yours to manipulate, to create and rebuild.

I know who you are.

You are destiny.

Holy Thunder

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Re: Battleship Craft--A great BR Parallel
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2013, 10:14:24 am »
So I've been playing a lot in the last few days, lol. As expensive as my ship is, I haven't quite had the nerve to dive in to the caliber of airplane-toting opponents I'm likely to face. To answer some more questions:


--I have discovered that the carriers come equipped with just a single dive-bomber, in the hopes that you'll spend real money on cooler planes. I confess I broke down and bought a few planes just to see how they work.

--Torpedo planes are nasty hitters, but crazy vulnerable. Fighters are worthless except against other planes. Bombers do decent damage and then die. Unless you have a huge massive swarm of planes, they're only marginally helpful if you make them fight on their own. Instead of building a whole new carrier, I just removed a couple of side guns and added runways to the side of my raft. I haven't protected my runways so they get taken out early in any fight, but most of them die immediately after / before dropping their payload anyway.

--The best use of planes is as a distraction from the boat, and you should keep a decently armed boat to serve as a distraction from the planes. In my experiments, neither fares very well when fighting on their own.

--The Mk45-5 looks to be a crazy overpowered gun. A ship with a very high armor rating can shrug off the shots, but any vulnerable ship parts will break down quickly. It does 1045 damage every two seconds, compared to the 46cm's 2500 damage every 20 seconds. If you're hitting 1000 armor average, that's only 45 actual damage * 10 shots, or 450 damage in 20 seconds, compared to the 46cm's 1500 actual damage. But if the armor average is only 700 or so, that becomes 345 actual damage per shot for 3450 actual damage in 20 seconds. And then, of course, you have it's handy AA capacity. Sadly, I have not invested in these yet as I'm trying to build my bomber fleet.

--The aiming mechanic is definitely frustrating. You have to lead your targets to account for shell travel time, which I'm cool with. The challenge is in figuring out how exactly to lead them, which is very difficult. Here's basically what I've found--if you zoom in and shoot, your shots will arch high and take a while to get there. If you zoom out and shoot, they'll go on a more direct path. So when your target is within 7 km or so, zoom out and give them a broadside--you get a line of shots moving very rapidly, which gives you a really good chance of a hit. And with the big guns, even a few hits have a real impact. Once you hit their engine, they can't dodge your shots any more.

--I don't know how much multiplayer you've done, but your opponents there will not have the same accuracy as the computer. To make up for their lack of originality, the AI opponents  seem to have an uncanny ability to hit you no matter how fast you go or how hard you try to avoid their shots. So I don't bother anymore. :)

--Since I haven't invested in any AA guns, I also have precioius little skill at defending against airplanes.

--Real missions would be great. What would be greater is if they took the whole thing to space....


**Edit**
When I finally finish buying my house and have the funds to fix my laptop, you can fully expect this level of analysis with BR's systems.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2013, 10:44:46 am by Holy Thunder »
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Me2005

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Re: Battleship Craft--A great BR Parallel
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2013, 11:41:51 am »
And my other question - pre-built sub or pre-built aircraft carrier? Sounds like the carrier only comes with 1-50,000 plane, so it seems like it might not be worthwhile at 300,000. The subs are 300,000 and 420,000; the 420,000 one looks cooler but I'm nervous about the components being able to repay the cost.

I'm looking for something that'll grind every dual-battle, and I think the subs are it - the computers don't do much and probably can't understand a sub. Later when I've got loads of money the aircraft carrier would be worthwhile, sending in ~30 torpedo planes would probably stop any AI ship.
But you were dead a thousand times. Hopeless encounters successfully won. A man long dead, grafted to machines your builders did not understand. You follow the path, fitting into an infinite pattern. Yours to manipulate, to create and rebuild.

I know who you are.

You are destiny.

Holy Thunder

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Re: Battleship Craft--A great BR Parallel
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2013, 11:47:57 am »
The sub is probably worthwhile. In that case your value is not in the components themselves, but rather a design that actually works to keep you submerged (but not sunk) and fighting. I have not yet successfully designed a sub myself, despite several tries.

You can also save up and just shoehorn a runway into your existing design, if you want to go the air route. They're 40,000 each. I would never ever use the factory design of any ship on the market, and I would only buy it to get a close look at the design before I scrapped it for parts. That's how I realized just how simple their physics are, when I bought the Yamato.


*Edit: I might buy the sub, just to look. Don't use it in multiplayer, one depth charge hit and you're toast.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2013, 11:51:32 am by Holy Thunder »
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Me2005

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Re: Battleship Craft--A great BR Parallel
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2013, 12:34:00 pm »
The sub is probably worthwhile. In that case your value is not in the components themselves, but rather a design that actually works to keep you submerged (but not sunk) and fighting. I have not yet successfully designed a sub myself, despite several tries.

You can also save up and just shoehorn a runway into your existing design, if you want to go the air route. They're 40,000 each. I would never ever use the factory design of any ship on the market, and I would only buy it to get a close look at the design before I scrapped it for parts. That's how I realized just how simple their physics are, when I bought the Yamato.


*Edit: I might buy the sub, just to look. Don't use it in multiplayer, one depth charge hit and you're toast.

I'll keep saving up for the sub then.

Got a parts list for the Yamato?

What I'm more interested in is whether the parts pay for the ship, which I think is the case. The Makasa costs $40,000, but just 2 of it's guns add up to $30,000; and it's got full 200 mm lightweight, boilers, decorations, and ~20 of those block-guns. I think it adds up to $40,000 just for the guns. If that's the case with the Yamato/any of the prebuilts, I'd rather spend the money on prebuilts getting free parts than not.
But you were dead a thousand times. Hopeless encounters successfully won. A man long dead, grafted to machines your builders did not understand. You follow the path, fitting into an infinite pattern. Yours to manipulate, to create and rebuild.

I know who you are.

You are destiny.

Holy Thunder

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Re: Battleship Craft--A great BR Parallel
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2013, 02:12:23 pm »
I don't recall the specifics, sadly. I do know it has a lot of 600mm lightweight armor and at least 2 (maybe 3) big 46cm guns. Going the parts route, it's probably worth it or very close.


Update:  The Mk45-5 guns are useless against ships, at least ones worth anything. That's a wasted $100k.  Also, I can't hit aircraft on purpose worth squat.
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Me2005

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Re: Battleship Craft--A great BR Parallel
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2013, 02:22:12 pm »
I don't recall the specifics, sadly. I do know it has a lot of 600mm lightweight armor and at least 2 (maybe 3) big 46cm guns. Going the parts route, it's probably worth it or very close.


Update:  The Mk45-5 guns are useless against ships, at least ones worth anything. That's a wasted $100k.  Also, I can't hit aircraft on purpose worth squat.

You need to buy the spy radar to be able to hit aircraft, good to know about them not being able to take down ships. I might try mounting one on a PT boat when I get around to getting them.

2-3 46'ers puts it between 200 and 300K, armor isn't super costly usually, but any smaller guns it'd mount would be about another 50-100k and it probably has the 75K rangefinder. It's probably slightly better than worth it. Has me wondering if I should spend money on it rather than a sub; they're the same cost :\
But you were dead a thousand times. Hopeless encounters successfully won. A man long dead, grafted to machines your builders did not understand. You follow the path, fitting into an infinite pattern. Yours to manipulate, to create and rebuild.

I know who you are.

You are destiny.

Holy Thunder

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Re: Battleship Craft--A great BR Parallel
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2013, 02:46:42 pm »
Your call. The sub is a sure thing for farming, but in my experience (fighting them) they're pretty slow. Torpedos hit hard, but they're also slow.  Really, for grinding, what I've always used is a basic platform with every meaningful gun (30.5 or greater) I own. Shoot more BB's. Kill more quickly.

Automatic Post Merge: May 08, 2013, 11:37:15 am
*******

So I put together a few screenshots, of Doom Raft and my new beast, the Iron Thunder.

Spoiler

Doom Raft--my second VIP ship.

[Hyperlink]
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9g6ayrrhqvth0qk/Photo%20May%2007%2C%201%2036%2051%20PM.png
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https://www.dropbox.com/s/p5rak2r8xqpp5wj/Photo%20May%2007%2C%201%2037%2008%20PM.png
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Built on a single layer of 2x2x2 400mm lightweight armor, with all the guns I could cram on it. Powered by 6 x angled boilers, encased in more 2x2x2 armor blocks.

Primary armaments were 8 x 46cm tri gun, 4 x 40cm tri gun, 1 x 40 cm dual gun, 2 x 30.5+ cm guns, more than 10 x 30.5 cm guns, and 10 x assorted aircraft.

Top speed was 66kph, and build was 65% max. I could usually take Yamato and the last fleet battle with enough health to get the full reward. I beat the carrier level 2 of every 3 times, usually with about half armor.



Iron Thunder--my next-generation Battleship Carrier. Not much to look at, but fearsome. 235m x 80m.

[Hyperlink]
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ms61m7cird6tsvw/Photo%20May%2008%2C%2011%2019%2007%20AM.png[/Hyperlink]

[Hyperlink]
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nwc78poo09lwo59/Photo%20May%2008%2C%2011%2019%2042%20AM.png
[/Hyperlink]

Three runways built on a bed of 2x2x2 armor and fully encased in more armor blocks. Run on the same 6 angled boilers, but much more snugly protected.

Armament consists of 6 x 46cm guns, 4 x 40cm tri guns, 1 x 40cm dual gun,  2 x Mk45 5-inch guns, and 18 x assorted aircraft. More importantly, the current build is capable of holding more than 40 aircraft as I can afford them.

Top speed is 63.5 kph. Current build is also 65% maxed. Can reliably win all drill battles with 80% or more health. If I don't fight back, the AI in the last two battles takes more than 7 minutes to sink me.

It's a work in progress. I need to extend the back end of the ship by at least 3 or more big blocks to better distribute my weight. Once I've made enough money to have 40 or so aircraft, I'll probably rework the interior to have 4 runways instead of 3.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 11:39:43 am by Holy Thunder »
--Trespassers will be promptly riddled with bullets and other unpleasant projectiles.

--Survivors will treated with apologies, steak dinner, and a VIP tour of our facilities.

Me2005

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Re: Battleship Craft--A great BR Parallel
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2013, 11:38:08 am »
Found a good sub tutorial yesterday - built it and tested it out, figured out how it works, then bit the bullet and bought an underwater torpedo tube to mount on it. I need to rebalance it, but it sank the Scorpius II (duel 8) with no damage. I imagine it can take the Yamato (or any duel) but didn't have time to try that theory. It goes at a decent clip actually, around 28-40 when submerged (not full throttle). He's got a tutorial for a Mk 2 version that is better, but I didn't have the funds to buy all the underwater torpedo tubes so I customized my own.

Attached are some pictures of the model I made in sketchup before building it. The base is a 3x20 block of double ballast, surrounded on all but the back by 1/2 ballast. The front and back have a row of double ballast (5 blocks on the back, 3 on the front), and there's 3 blocks of double ballast a few rows in on either end; but everything should be shown in the picts. He used two small carrier boilers in the two openings (rotated to be symmetrical), and the 3-long blocks in the images are supposed to be torpedo tubes. Here's a link to the video tutorial I used. That guy (ShinWei Chiou) has some awesome tutorials; I'm planning to build the Aegis Destroyer and the Battleship when I get the in-game money (not real money, no way I'm buying all that rare metal), and I'm finishing up the hydrofoil to see how it does in duels (as a PT boat).
But you were dead a thousand times. Hopeless encounters successfully won. A man long dead, grafted to machines your builders did not understand. You follow the path, fitting into an infinite pattern. Yours to manipulate, to create and rebuild.

I know who you are.

You are destiny.

Holy Thunder

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Re: Battleship Craft--A great BR Parallel
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2013, 11:42:10 am »
Never used sketchup before, but that looks pretty awesome.
--Trespassers will be promptly riddled with bullets and other unpleasant projectiles.

--Survivors will treated with apologies, steak dinner, and a VIP tour of our facilities.

Me2005

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Re: Battleship Craft--A great BR Parallel
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2013, 01:27:36 pm »
So I put together a few screenshots, of Doom Raft and my new beast, the Iron Thunder. ...

Missed this. That is some beastly armament you've got, I need to get to farming the last few battles before I'll be able to mount that kind of stuff. Ugly as sin though :P

Never used sketchup before, but that looks pretty awesome.

For this kind of thing, it's super-simple- draw a 1x1x1m cube, group/component it, and use as you would in BSC. For the angled ones, draw them the way you'd expect. I feel like BSC's modeling engine is based off of Sketchup, it looks and acts like Sketchup does. That could be totally wrong, 3d models are 3d models, but they'd all be easy to recreate in Sketchup if I was inclined to do it and had decent reference sitting in front of me. The trouble is that if I have the best reference - the game - in front of me, I'd rather play it than make sketchup models ;D
But you were dead a thousand times. Hopeless encounters successfully won. A man long dead, grafted to machines your builders did not understand. You follow the path, fitting into an infinite pattern. Yours to manipulate, to create and rebuild.

I know who you are.

You are destiny.

Thadius Faran

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Re: Battleship Craft--A great BR Parallel
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2013, 02:31:33 pm »
Actuallynim quite fond of the doom raft. It stinks I'm missing all the action though.
If your going to use military force you ought to use overwhelming military force. All war is immoral and if you let that bother you your not a good soldier.

Me2005

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Re: Battleship Craft--A great BR Parallel
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2013, 01:14:56 pm »
Tested the sub out today and laid waste to the Yamato and Aircraft Carrier 2 without taking a hit. It takes some time, and I need to be better balanced to avoid the hairyness of diving/surfacing at the wrong time, but definitely feels like cheating it's so easy. I'll need to see if it's more worthwhile to do that or do the duel level 8 4x with my normal ship, but I'll be adding more torpedo tubes to speed up the process.

Yamato is a beast - no less than 8 torpedo hits before sinking. I'm not sure how RL-accurate the carriers are in comparison, they only took 1 or 2 (I was under the understanding that carriers are very resilient to damage, but also very vulnerable to it because they lack standard armament?).
But you were dead a thousand times. Hopeless encounters successfully won. A man long dead, grafted to machines your builders did not understand. You follow the path, fitting into an infinite pattern. Yours to manipulate, to create and rebuild.

I know who you are.

You are destiny.

Holy Thunder

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Re: Battleship Craft--A great BR Parallel
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2013, 02:18:10 pm »
The Yamato-class battleship is the largest ever created; while some ships like the USS Constitution are famous for the punishment they survived, Yamato is famous for the damage required to kill it--Yamato was sunk in April 1945 by American carrier aircraft during Operation Ten-Go, receiving 10 torpedo and 7 bomb hits before capsizing.

Less-known fact, the only other full-on Yamato-class Battleship was even tougher.  Musashi took  17 bomb and 19 torpedo hits during the Battle of the Sibuyan Sea, in October 1945.  Even more astounding, Musashi had a 57% survivor rate compared to Yamato's 7% survival rate.

My theory is that either Musashi was secretly made of adamantium, or a distant relative of Colossus was running around blocking bomb hits and torpedoes with his face.



Seperately, I'm getting a little frustrated with my planes. I'm up to 22 now, and fighting Yamato I can't get more than 20% of its health down before they're out of ammo or dead. I really want to sink Yamato with just planes, but it's proving exceedingly difficult. I may need a carrier ship of an entirely different caliber.


**Edit**

Thadius, I think you can get a newer iPod off eBay for a reasonable price these days. If your ships here are any indication, I would relish a good fight.  Me, basically we just have to become friends on Game Center and happen to be online at the same time.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 02:30:23 pm by Holy Thunder »
--Trespassers will be promptly riddled with bullets and other unpleasant projectiles.

--Survivors will treated with apologies, steak dinner, and a VIP tour of our facilities.