Author Topic: Picking Nits: They Shouldn't be Called Ships and It Isn't a Navy  (Read 16700 times)

Proteus

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Re: Picking Nits: They Shouldn't be Called Ships and It Isn't a Navy
« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2012, 11:57:53 pm »
The analog to modern military structure works just fine.  No real reason to change it.

Ace

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Re: Picking Nits: They Shouldn't be Called Ships and It Isn't a Navy
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2012, 10:06:56 pm »
I call them magic boxes that go boom.
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RoflTankFTW

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Re: Picking Nits: They Shouldn't be Called Ships and It Isn't a Navy
« Reply #32 on: October 31, 2012, 03:05:50 pm »
This thread is pointless. Mostly because spacecraft actually do "float" in a sense, seeing as how space isn't a true vacuum and that it is instead extremely low pressure and can be counted as a gaseous medium. (space has stuff in it, albeit incredibly far apart, but that still disqualifies it as a vacuum) This means that spacecraft can indeed be called spaceships, and groups of said spaceships can indeed be called a Navy/Fleet. Thus your point is invalid, because ships floating in a liquid/gaseous medium fit into the definition of "ship". Not to say you cant call your grouping a Cado-Vasy of whatever the hell, but there are people who appreciate the simpler things, like calling their grouping a "Space Fleet" without fear of someone yelling at them for not using their bastardized Latin names that person made up.

P.S. on a personal note, this thread is also disrespectful. Be it an airship, spaceship, sea-fairing ship, or even a land ship (virtual or not) they all deserve a measure of respect and dignity be provided to them. But that is just my opinion.
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Kane Loki

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Re: Picking Nits: They Shouldn't be Called Ships and It Isn't a Navy
« Reply #33 on: October 31, 2012, 04:55:53 pm »
This thread is pointless. Mostly because spacecraft actually do "float" in a sense, seeing as how space isn't a true vacuum and that it is instead extremely low pressure and can be counted as a gaseous medium. (space has stuff in it, albeit incredibly far apart, but that still disqualifies it as a vacuum) This means that spacecraft can indeed be called spaceships, and groups of said spaceships can indeed be called a Navy/Fleet. Thus your point is invalid, because ships floating in a liquid/gaseous medium fit into the definition of "ship". Not to say you cant call your grouping a Cado-Vasy of whatever the hell, but there are people who appreciate the simpler things, like calling their grouping a "Space Fleet" without fear of someone yelling at them for not using their bastardized Latin names that person made up.

Geez, you guys are cranky; do realize that I'm not advocating replacement of terminology, I'm advocating the creation of more synonyms.  I'm not going to take away you favored use of spaceship, I want you to help me make words that mean the same thing but aren't inspired by terrestrial influences.  I want us to build some space-words for the dictionary.

Calling a thread pointless without reading the entire thing.  Well done.

If you'll confirm this for me, I believe the title of this subforum is "General Discussion".  I'm not sure what part of "your argument is invalid" fits the definition of discussion.

Personally, I doubt I'll ever call them anything but ships, simply for ease of use.  But I am also enjoying watching the creation of this new terminology.

And what's wrong with bastardized Latin names?  That's what most of what English is anyway.

P.S. on a personal note, this thread is also disrespectful. Be it an airship, spaceship, sea-fairing ship, or even a land ship (virtual or not) they all deserve a measure of respect and dignity be provided to them. But that is just my opinion.

I... what?  Are you afraid you'll hurt the feelings of a giant chunk of steel by calling it something different?

I'm genuinely trying to wrap my head around the idea of disrespecting an inanimate object by changing its already arbitrary designation, and I can't do it.  Some illumination would be helpful here.
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RoflTankFTW

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Re: Picking Nits: They Shouldn't be Called Ships and It Isn't a Navy
« Reply #34 on: October 31, 2012, 05:12:31 pm »
I... what?  Are you afraid you'll hurt the feelings of a giant chunk of steel by calling it something different?

I'm genuinely trying to wrap my head around the idea of disrespecting an inanimate object by changing its already arbitrary designation, and I can't do it.  Some illumination would be helpful here.

You obviously don't know much about the Navy. The whole thing of respecting your ship started hundreds of years ago, with an old saying (not word for word of course) that it takes alot of money to keep a ship in powder, but if you treat her right she'll treat you the same, just like a woman (as it goes) SO, if you have any respect for tradition or the Navy you treat a ship with a measure of respect and love, and she'll do the same for you. Same thing applies to any ship.

And even if you're not superstitious, it is the proper thing to do, virtual or not. That and you don't go against Naval traditions, it's bad juju.

edit: crap the quote bit isn't working. :/
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 05:15:37 pm by RoflTankFTW »
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Kane Loki

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Re: Picking Nits: They Shouldn't be Called Ships and It Isn't a Navy
« Reply #35 on: October 31, 2012, 06:11:16 pm »
Code: [Select]
[quote]Quoted stuff goes here?[/quote]
I'm well aware of the tradition, and I never said one shouldn't respect a ship (though "giant chunk of steel" may have made it seem that way.  Heh.).  I just don't see how calling a ship something other than 'ship' is disrespectful.  Actually, I don't see how calling all of the ships, as a group, something other than 'ships' is disrespectful, since this thread isn't about individual vessels.  Or even vessels at all, really, since it's more about the idea of them.

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it is the proper thing to do

That really rubs me the wrong way.  But we're already dangerously off-topic as it is, and will probably have the mods on our heads if we keep it up.

Welcome to the forums, by the way.  As you've probably seen, we tend to be a contentious lot. ;D
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RoflTankFTW

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Re: Picking Nits: They Shouldn't be Called Ships and It Isn't a Navy
« Reply #36 on: October 31, 2012, 07:58:21 pm »
Welcome to the forums, by the way.  As you've probably seen, we tend to be a contentious lot. ;D

Ha! i should fit right in. ;) But on topic, i see his point, and i disagree. Although Cado-Vasy sounds like something a civilization would send out to scout new systems... Very EVE Amarr-ish
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Cy83r

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Re: Picking Nits: They Shouldn't be Called Ships and It Isn't a Navy
« Reply #37 on: November 01, 2012, 06:28:52 pm »
That really rubs me the wrong way.  But we're already dangerously off-topic as it is, and will probably have the mods on our heads if we keep it up.

Actually, I contend that assertion, as we're discussing names, the essence of tradition is most definitely a weighing factor in the discussion.

Welcome to the forums, by the way.  As you've probably seen, we tend to be a contentious lot. ;D

Ha! i should fit right in. ;) But on topic, i see his point, and i disagree. Although Cado-Vasy sounds like something a civilization would send out to scout new systems... Very EVE Amarr-ish

A Navy of Ships, thus: A 'Vasy of Cadi'
Navy:Navis:Naus:Ship::Vasy:Vasis:Vas:Vessel
Ship:Cut/Rip Up [the water]::Cadis:Fall [through space]

Also, the French.

This thread is pointless. Mostly because spacecraft actually do "float" in a sense, seeing as how space isn't a true vacuum and that it is instead extremely low pressure and can be counted as a gaseous medium. (space has stuff in it, albeit incredibly far apart, but that still disqualifies it as a vacuum) This means that spacecraft can indeed be called spaceships, and groups of said spaceships can indeed be called a Navy/Fleet. Thus your point is invalid, because ships floating in a liquid/gaseous medium fit into the definition of "ship". Not to say you cant call your grouping a Cado-Vasy of whatever the hell, but there are people who appreciate the simpler things, like calling their grouping a "Space Fleet" without fear of someone yelling at them for not using their bastardized Latin names that person made up.

P.S. on a personal note, this thread is also disrespectful. Be it an airship, spaceship, sea-fairing ship, or even a land ship (virtual or not) they all deserve a measure of respect and dignity be provided to them. But that is just my opinion.

By that logic, cars float atop the ground and planes within the air.  I have constructed the new terms through analysis of the old and attempting to retain tradition while allowing for proper equivalency.  'Fleet' still applies as it is already used in a medium-neutral sense.  Those who respect tradition without acknowledging its history are doomed to fall to ruin where their ancestors triumphed.
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TranceMonger

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Re: Picking Nits: They Shouldn't be Called Ships and It Isn't a Navy
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2012, 07:07:33 pm »
Hi everyone!  Been gone a long time and popped back in to see how things are going.  I see you're all as contentious as ever!  ;D

Cy83r, I really Like what you're getting at with this, and I'd love to throw in some possibilities after I've had some time to think.  Also it occurs to me that the naming of things can often depend on officially given names,("Proper" names given by a high ranked individual, or committee, ect.) or "Nicknames" given by the common populous. 

For an example;  A large corp./ nation creates a new/ unique kind of vessel for hauling large amounts of ore from their system's astroid belt ect.   They refer to these ships as Terracadi  (For arguments sake, "Falling dirt") rather fondly.  A new name for their ships to set them apart. 

The foremen and administrators of the _______ belt mines have taken to just calling them "Hulls" as they see only a great empty hull that they have to fill with the next quota.  The miners/ drill operators ect. who have it the worst, sometimes call them "Hulls,"  and sometimes refer to them as "Tubs," "Scrapboxes," or even "Slugs." 
(Actually goes back to the weird 'respect' thing in a way...)


So come up with some stuff guys!  And remember, names tend to depend a lot on who is doing the naming, and how drunk they were at the time!    ;D ;D ;D

Cheers!   8)
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dracorotor

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Re: Picking Nits: They Shouldn't be Called Ships and It Isn't a Navy
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2012, 03:46:44 pm »
It's hopeless. We'll just have to use an Acronym:

GISeProProHurTSpaBetCBo (GISPPHTSBCB for short)

It stands for Guided, Inhabited, Self-Propelled Projectile Hurtling Through the Space Between Celestial Bodies

Honestly, though, English isn't built strictly on rules, and in some cases (I point to weird not using i before e, for instance) precedent can overrule logic and structure dictated by root languages. In this case, A vessel (i.e. container) carries through the air by a lighter-than-air, propelled device was called an Air-Ship for a very long time. Now, we can do the same with similar vessels borne through space with special vacuum-based propulsion devices, as well. The precedent is well over 100 years old at this time, with terms like spaceship, airship, and starship being common in our vernacular since before any of us were born.

If it makes you feel any better, spacecraft doesn't break any of the rules as far as I'm concerned: We have crafted them, and they are in space.
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Cy83r

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Re: Picking Nits: They Shouldn't be Called Ships and It Isn't a Navy
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2012, 08:02:54 pm »
And shipping lanes sounds leagues better than freight corridors, despite the littlest nazi in my noggin vehemently preferring otherwise.
Jibreel: Yeah but [Hufer] that's like [Axis] complaining that his Toyota Camry is stuck in the mud and you responding "Well my M1 Abrams doesn't seem to be having much trouble."

Bladecatcher

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Re: Picking Nits: They Shouldn't be Called Ships and It Isn't a Navy
« Reply #41 on: December 07, 2012, 06:51:59 pm »
Can I just take this opportunity to express how much I HATE the English language? As somebody who is not very good with words in the first place, English is probably one of the worst languages to be stuck with.

Cy83r

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Re: Picking Nits: They Shouldn't be Called Ships and It Isn't a Navy
« Reply #42 on: December 07, 2012, 07:04:27 pm »
Yeah, sure, but it's as flexible as a contortionist and has enough mixed heritage that it can safely claim any word in any language as its own should it not already have a suitable equivalent.
Jibreel: Yeah but [Hufer] that's like [Axis] complaining that his Toyota Camry is stuck in the mud and you responding "Well my M1 Abrams doesn't seem to be having much trouble."

Rainman

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Re: Picking Nits: They Shouldn't be Called Ships and It Isn't a Navy
« Reply #43 on: December 10, 2012, 11:15:08 am »
Yeah, sure, but it's as flexible as a contortionist and has enough mixed heritage that it can safely claim any word in any language as its own should it not already have a suitable equivalent.

This. English is a bitch to learn, but a joy to have mastered.
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Stubborn AI

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Re: Picking Nits: They Shouldn't be Called Ships and It Isn't a Navy
« Reply #44 on: December 10, 2012, 11:47:45 am »
Even if it ends up with people disagreeing they should be called Navy or ships. Its so ingrained in popular culture that I wouldn't be surprised if we end up referring to them that way officially.

No big deal anyway
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