Author Topic: On the topic of Wings for Smaller ships  (Read 10310 times)

Woodledude

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On the topic of Wings for Smaller ships
« on: April 29, 2012, 08:37:15 pm »
I just bought the game, and tried to make a fighter. This brought up a few questions:

-All things have to be at least one block thick. This looks just a bit weird on smaller ships. Even angled, it never gets below a half block. Will we be able to make wings that are a quarter, an eighth, or even a sixteenth of a block thick, without having to work it at weird angles?

-I've been looking at some neat ship designs, and a few of them have several thin, small wings clustered together at slightly varying angles. Will we be able to achieve this or something like it in-game on smaller craft?

-I think it would be cool if some of the wings could move. Could we make wings that can shift between stages/modes (for example, Star Wars X-wing), or even ornithoptic craft?
Tell me what you think, and thank you for your time.

Imaus

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Re: On the topic of Wings for Smaller ships
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2012, 08:43:27 pm »
That would be neat if the wings could move.
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SnowDragon

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Re: On the topic of Wings for Smaller ships
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2012, 10:45:16 am »
I had a design with folding wings, the Atlanta class. I think this is one of those things you might just have deal with I think. Getting a game like this is a godsend, and I'm pretty much happy with having to deal with block thick wings in exchange for everything else we're going to get.

Besides, thick wings hold more fuel and ammo for your little jets.

kaptnkrunch

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Re: On the topic of Wings for Smaller ships
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2012, 12:14:26 pm »
Protip guys:

There's no air in space so wings are irrelevant beyond adding weight to your ship.

ChunkofWhat

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Re: On the topic of Wings for Smaller ships
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2012, 12:25:16 pm »
Protip guys:

There's no air in space so wings are irrelevant beyond adding weight to your ship.

Aww, I was gonna say that.

But because you said it first, I'll instead add a reason why wings actually CAN be beneficial.
If you put thrusters out on the ends of "wings", it should increase the ship's maneuverability because they're farther from the center of mass and will throw the ship over more when they blast non-symmetrically.  That said, there's no reason for these "wings" to be more than a few blocks wide.

Me2005

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Re: On the topic of Wings for Smaller ships
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2012, 12:29:00 pm »
But because you said it first, I'll instead add a reason why wings actually CAN be beneficial.
If you put thrusters out on the ends of "wings", it should increase the ship's maneuverability because they're farther from the center of mass and will throw the ship over more when they blast non-symmetrically.  That said, there's no reason for these "wings" to be more than a few blocks wide.

And they've got great surface area for radiating excess heat, and can be nice weapon-mounting points.
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ChunkofWhat

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Re: On the topic of Wings for Smaller ships
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2012, 01:02:03 pm »
But because you said it first, I'll instead add a reason why wings actually CAN be beneficial.
If you put thrusters out on the ends of "wings", it should increase the ship's maneuverability because they're farther from the center of mass and will throw the ship over more when they blast non-symmetrically.  That said, there's no reason for these "wings" to be more than a few blocks wide.

And they've got great surface area for radiating excess heat, and can be nice weapon-mounting points.

Well actually, the near-vacuum of space would make a conventional heat sink pretty useless.  You need something to whisk the heat away, like air, for that kind of thing to work.  Fortunately, this means it takes a lot longer to freeze to death in space!

As for weapon mounts, true, though it depends on preference.  I kinda prefer having center-mounted weapons so I actually hit what I aim at, not just the general area surrounding it.

Also in terms of weight, having a round ship should just about always be preferable to a flat one because of the frame to interior space ratio. 
Think about it this way: if you have 24 blocks to make one cross section of a ship, you would maximize interior space (for putting batteries, engine components, computers, ammo, etc in) by making a round or square shape.  For the sake of simplicity, let's just say square, so (excluding corners) you'd have a 6x6 area with a 36 square block interior.
If you tried to make a flat shape with those 24 blocks, you would end up with 11x1 (11 square block interior), or 10x2 (20 square block interior), or 9x3 (27 square block interior). 
A flat shape will always require a lot more frame per interior room pay off.  That means a lot more plating, and a lot more weight.

Perhaps the parameters of the game will be lenient enough to allow more aesthetic ship design decisions.  It all depends on how the devs decide to balance things.


Me2005

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Re: On the topic of Wings for Smaller ships
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2012, 01:16:32 pm »
Well actually, the near-vacuum of space would make a conventional heat sink pretty useless.  You need something to whisk the heat away, like air, for that kind of thing to work. ...

No no, this would be a literal heat radiator. Like, the metal glows red-hot and the IR floats off (or radiates, though it's hard to use "radiate" to describe the same thing as something that isn't really "radiating" here on earth and when "IR" stands for "Infrared radiation" or something). It's the only way to dump heat in space, without actually dumping hot mass (which would then radiate in this manor).
But you were dead a thousand times. Hopeless encounters successfully won. A man long dead, grafted to machines your builders did not understand. You follow the path, fitting into an infinite pattern. Yours to manipulate, to create and rebuild.

I know who you are.

You are destiny.

kaptnkrunch

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Re: On the topic of Wings for Smaller ships
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2012, 01:17:12 pm »
Personally I've always hated winged space craft. X-wing in star wars a particular case in point.

Tie fighters don't make any sense either, but whatever, they can look cool.

Personally I've always like the deep-space ship designs from Homeworld, those ships really look like they were designed for space, not just based on fighter planes or battleships.

40k ships are pretty bad about being designed like 18/19th century men of war with a distinct up and down.

I suspect when multiplayer kicks off properly it'll be a pretty effective optimizer and the best ship designs should sort themselves out. I suspect wings won't be something that last and may become almost the same as having a massive 'I'm a noob, take pot shots at me' neon sign attached to your ship.

MrVorgra

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Re: On the topic of Wings for Smaller ships
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2012, 01:57:31 pm »
unless they are used as a form of armour... cool looking armour
Real Men drive vehicles without knowing how fast they are moving or how much fuel remains in the tank.

blazingsentinal

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Re: On the topic of Wings for Smaller ships
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2012, 02:00:47 pm »
'I'm a noob, take pot shots at me' neon sign attached to your ship.
i'll take twenty!

blackether

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Re: On the topic of Wings for Smaller ships
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2012, 02:23:28 pm »
Don't worry, the half blocks are coming SoonTM;D

I do think that some prefab-style wings are in order once we know just how big a fighter has to be to operate.

Alaric

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Re: On the topic of Wings for Smaller ships
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2012, 03:12:42 pm »
I suspect when multiplayer kicks off properly it'll be a pretty effective optimizer and the best ship designs should sort themselves out. I suspect wings won't be something that last...

Yes, survival of the best-designed. Let the fools build their winged ships; the test of battle will sort out their utility...
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Bladecatcher

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Re: On the topic of Wings for Smaller ships
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2012, 03:17:44 pm »
I've been trying to make a small prefab wing, but I'm having a weird problem with it. For some reason, it won't mirror to the opposite side of the ship. I can get it positioned perfectly on the left side of my ship, but when I go to put it on the right, it refuses to flip the 180 degrees. Oddly enough, I can place the wing on the bottom of the ship and it will mirror just fine on the top.

I'm not sure if it's a problem with Blender, BR, or if I'm just stoopid. 

Wadusher

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Re: On the topic of Wings for Smaller ships
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2012, 03:44:21 pm »
I've been trying to make a small prefab wing, but I'm having a weird problem with it. For some reason, it won't mirror to the opposite side of the ship. I can get it positioned perfectly on the left side of my ship, but when I go to put it on the right, it refuses to flip the 180 degrees. Oddly enough, I can place the wing on the bottom of the ship and it will mirror just fine on the top.

I'm not sure if it's a problem with Blender, BR, or if I'm just stoopid.
Symmetry is very finicky with prefabs.