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General Info => General Discussion => Topic started by: MrVorgra on November 04, 2011, 07:30:26 am

Title: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: MrVorgra on November 04, 2011, 07:30:26 am
Okay I got a few questions on the use of Ship Weaponry.

Who Controls them

Will Weapons Be Manually Aimed and fired?

Or Select A target and all weapons Fire?

Or Will it be a mix of both?

Weapon Sets

Will we be able to assign each gun to its own weapon set?
 - Gun 1, 3, 5 is assigned to the Keyboard button '1'
 - Gun 2, 4, 6 is assigned to the Keyboard button '2'
Etc...

Firing Order/Pattern

In assigning the weapon sets will we be able to assign a firing order?
 - Weapon Set '1' which comprises of Gun 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
With a Firing order of Gun 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 (Consecutive)
With a Firing order of Gun -1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9- (Simultanious Fire)
With a Firing order of Gun -1,2,3,4,5-,-6,7,8,9- (Simultanious fire with Consecutive fire(the guns withing '- -' fire simultanious(So Guns 1,2,3,4,5 all fire simultaniously then guns 6,7,8,9 do the same))
Basically any pattern you could think of.

Will we be able to control the time interval between each weapon firing?
 - Gun 1 fires wait 1 second, Gun 2 fires wait 2 second,....Etc

Weapon Stances

Weather we will be able to Set the Weapon Sets to differant stats
 - Fire at will (Fire at will at the selected target when within range including friendly)
 - Fire at Will friendly (Fire at will at the selected target when within range excluding friendly)
 - Defensive (Fire if fired apon and only at aggressor)
 - Aggressive (Fire At any target within range including friendly)
 - Aggressive friendly (Fire At any target within range excluding friendly)
 - Passive (do not return fire under any circumstances)

AI Control

Will we be able assign AI control to Weapon sets including Independently assigning AI controls to weapons within weapon sets?
 - Weapon Set '1' Has AI assigned
 - Weapon Set '2' has no AI assigned
 - Weapon Set '1' has Gun 1,2,3 of 1,2,3,4,5,6 With AI assigned (so guns 4,5,6 will not be AI controlled)

Will we have the AI take over guns we are not manually controlling? (only if AI is assigned to them)
Title: Re: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: Rainman on November 04, 2011, 09:04:21 am
Every single one of these questions, except possibly being able to program firing patterns, has been covered in previous weapons topics.
Title: Re: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: MrVorgra on November 04, 2011, 10:34:48 pm
I expected that I just put them in there to make it more understandable, oh and to fill in the post a lil more
Title: Re: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: glopso on November 04, 2011, 11:01:29 pm
"Firing Pattern" made me think of "Bullet Pattern"...... 3-D danmaku anyone?
Title: Re: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: Rainman on November 05, 2011, 10:56:26 am
We've already had folks making cannons that fire giant hammers made of plasma, as well as crosses, arcs, beams, concentric circles...

I'd say the forecast is sunny with a chance of DANMAKKU.
Title: Re: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: MrVorgra on November 05, 2011, 11:03:37 pm
that is Far from what I meant, Have you ever seen those old wooden ships with the fixed broadside cannons, basically the firing patterns are like that, you fire them one after the other, or all at once, or in groups...etc
Title: Re: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: glopso on November 05, 2011, 11:06:36 pm
That doesn't make the idea of danmaku IN SPACE any less awesome.
Title: Re: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: Cy83r on November 07, 2011, 06:11:19 pm
Isn't it going to be something like HelmPad+Utility Lines+Gun+Turret Block=functioning turret assembly?
Title: Re: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: MrVorgra on November 07, 2011, 08:19:10 pm
I wasn't refering to it that way, like you have you npcs, all lined up one per gun, then you select order, Fire at Target using Fire Pattern 1 (which could be, say, simultanious fire), so now all the npcs/guns will fire at the exact same time (or close to it at least)
Title: Re: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: SnowDragon on November 08, 2011, 12:41:02 pm
I've got to be honest here, good ideas, but a flawed system. EVE's system works well enough here. Assign your weapons into groupings, pick a target (or point) in space, press one to fire group one etc, and the redshirts in Fire Control hose it down.
Title: Re: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: MrVorgra on November 08, 2011, 04:33:31 pm
Flawed, How, I hardly ever played eve so Im a lil narrow sighted
Title: Re: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: SnowDragon on November 08, 2011, 08:09:19 pm
Flawed in it's over complex. Sorry man.
Title: Re: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: MrVorgra on November 08, 2011, 08:43:05 pm
I was thinking more like Chromehounds, You could assign guns into different groups, when your doing so you can place them in an order of 1,2,3 etc, and during that proccess you could select the interval of each gun. (However you could actually set the interval it was preset)

Here is A paint Mochup
I assure you it is not complicated.

(http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo84/aboarash/Menu-1.png)

you can have as many groups as you please.
you can have as many guns in each group as you please.
 
Title: Re: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: Me2005 on November 09, 2011, 10:28:29 am
I was thinking more like Chromehounds, You could assign guns into different groups, when your doing so you can place them in an order of 1,2,3 etc, and during that proccess you could select the interval of each gun. (However you could actually set the interval it was preset)

As long as it's entirely in the design phase; and when it comes to combat all I can do is push "fire" and expect all of my guns to open up, that's fine with me.

Alternatively, I'm ok putting them in "fire-groups," where I can fire one set with one button (assuming they can see the target), and cycle through other sets and fire them with another button.
Title: Re: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: MrVorgra on November 09, 2011, 05:39:40 pm
I was thinking more like Chromehounds, You could assign guns into different groups, when your doing so you can place them in an order of 1,2,3 etc, and during that proccess you could select the interval of each gun. (However you could actually set the interval it was preset)

As long as it's entirely in the design phase; and when it comes to combat all I can do is push "fire" and expect all of my guns to open up, that's fine with me.

Alternatively, I'm ok putting them in "fire-groups," where I can fire one set with one button (assuming they can see the target), and cycle through other sets and fire them with another button.

Yeah precisely ^^^ And Yeah the way you said it is how it would work, Set it up in the design/build phase /garage what ever it will be called, Basically you could assign the groups to what ever key you wanted, Ideally it would be the number keys.
Title: Re: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: Cy83r on November 09, 2011, 10:15:22 pm
Wait, wasn't this the idea behind FireCon computers?
Title: Re: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: RangerRyan on November 09, 2011, 10:28:11 pm
Just wanted to toss some input here.
I agree with the EVEOnline method of Turret-Groups. That would make it much easier. Something I have going on in my head at the moment is: Group 1&2 have Anti-Shield ammo, 3-5 Anti-Armor, 6-7 Anti-Hull/Missiles. I use Vorgra's method, and tellmy ship "When I enter battle, shoot my guns/cannons in this order:", then make it go Anti-Shield, THEN Anti-Armor, THEN Anti-Hull, or any which-way you want. Would make it a bit more neat/tidy in my opinion (Otherwise I wouldn't be typing this, now would I :P?)

Just some input. Awesome ideas, by the way :P

Title: A Note on Weapon Groupings
Post by: Strait Raider on November 11, 2011, 09:48:19 pm
Borrowing heavily from the MechWarrior games, I have a proposal for a weapon-management system that has the aim of being simple but with the abilty to produce complex results.

The chief idea is that each entity gets say, 10 weapon groups. For each weapon you place you can use the interact button to cycle it through the 10 groups to whichever you want to put it into.

EDIT: Using ctrl+group# you could assign any number of group tags to a given weapon system, allowing you to fire it in many different groups.

Each of the 10 groups would then be assigned a hotkey. This allows you to ripple-fire energy weapons to prevent heat and energy spikes, separate long-range and short-range weapons and just generally add a whole lot more flexibility to how you use your arsenal.

In the case of AI-linked weapons groups (which would have to be designated with some sort of menu system for each entity), the hotkey would switch that grouping between hold fire and fire-at-will modes. A similar system could be used to allocate control of weapons groups to subordinate players. These groups could potentially be further divided into up to 10 subgroups for subordinate player control.

Thoughts? Questions? Concerns?
Title: Re: A Note on Weapon Groupings
Post by: MrVorgra on November 11, 2011, 10:15:25 pm
You mean something along the lines of this?

http://forums.blockaderunnergame.com/index.php?topic=379.0

Ripple fire, as in consecutive fire, as in fire one, fire next, etc by the time you finished firing all guns the first one is cool, loaded and ready to fire?
Title: Re: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: Alaric on November 13, 2011, 05:17:48 pm
Merged with Strait Raider's post.
Title: Re: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: TarotDragoon on November 16, 2011, 08:20:52 am
As long as I can hop into a turret at any time and choose my own targets I like the weapons grouping system that eve uses, simple easy and effective, though maybe not so effective when ships have all sorts of weird angles to fire around.
Title: Re: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: MrVorgra on November 16, 2011, 08:24:11 am
thats still possible (btw my intention was you could take over groups and manually fire them.
Title: Re: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: SnowDragon on November 19, 2011, 08:20:24 am
There's also the issue of weapon damage to consider. Railguns and what not will be very easily damaged, the barrel gets dented and it's game over, hope you like slugging the inside of your own gunbarrel with multi kilotonne kinetic charges (:P), and that can't easily be repaired. A ballistic cannon would take a lot more of a beating, and damage to the barrel could be easily fixed by simple removing the effected piece. Sure, it won't be as effective, but it'll still work, the gun will still fire. And since a cannon won't be firing anythign other than high explosives, accuracy will be the only concern.

But on the other hand, a railgun ammo store is at no risk of exploding (If you can make solid tungsen carbide arrows explode from weapons fire, I'd like to see it), whereas a lucky shot to a ballistic or missle rack is going to blow a sizable chuck right out of the ship you just hit. Damage to either weapon's autoloader system is going to make reloading a manual job, neither fun nor fast...

You get the idea :P

~~SD
Title: Re: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: MrVorgra on November 19, 2011, 09:08:47 am
Thats Why I want ballistic weapons to be small (compact) so that we can have heaps, so if a few get dmged during battle you can still go Dakka Dakka Dakka.

Where as having Railguns (I expect them to Take a decent amount of room (not the guns them selves, I expect the capactitors to take up a lot of room).

Also with Chemical Guns, If you loose power the guns are still viable (assuming they are mechanical), Where as if one of you capacitors got hit (depending on the design) you could loose either a gun completely, or loose average effectiveness on all guns (that use capacitors)

So yeah they are realtivly balance

Chemical,

- Cheap
- Compact
- Volatile
- Weak Penetrator
- Powerful Explosivly

Energy

- Expensive
- Large
- Stable
- Powerful Penetrator
- Weak Explosivly
Title: Re: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: Matz05 on November 19, 2011, 06:10:18 pm
Nothing stops you from firing HE out of at least some kinds of electromagnetic guns. It is just useless for the big high-velocity ones, and probably not an improvement for the others
Title: Re: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: SnowDragon on November 19, 2011, 08:45:24 pm
The problem stems from actually getting the charge to be 'fired' out of a railgun if it's not magnetic. The issue also stems from the fact that the charge isn't going to stick together and would be inviable anyway considering the impact energy transfer. You're not going to get a boom, you're going to get a hole punched clean through that enemy ship before any charge has a chance to detonate.

That and you're making a non-explosive ammo source explosive (And thuis adding a weakpoint haha)

Good thoughts though.
Title: Re: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: Matz05 on November 19, 2011, 09:17:40 pm
A WEAK raligun, however, would benefit from payloads. Don't instantly assume that electromagnetic = relativistic.
Title: Re: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: Cy83r on November 20, 2011, 04:12:34 am
Shaped pentrators could work like frangibles and hollow points for railguns

explosives, no; flechettes, yes
Title: Re: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: SnowDragon on November 20, 2011, 08:07:39 am
More holes you put in them the better, though I still reckon pure ballistics are a more effective armament :P
Title: Re: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: MrVorgra on November 20, 2011, 08:43:50 pm
Very powerfull penetrating weapons would be far more valuable if you knew where all of the ships vital where, but that would only be IF.
Title: Re: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: Strait Raider on November 20, 2011, 08:55:26 pm
In addition to allowing you to hit protected systems deep in the ship, penetration allows you to vent atmosphere from multiple sections and gives you a greater chance of severing arterial lines of movement, fuel, power, coolant, etc.

For the energy investment though, it is less economical for disabling exterior systems such as weapons, heat sinks, sensors and thrusters than missiles, energy weapons or conventional ballistic weapons.

I'm stating the way this should be, in my opinion, for balance purposes.
Title: Re: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: MrVorgra on November 20, 2011, 10:23:26 pm
I agree with ya 100.1%
Title: Re: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: Matz05 on November 26, 2011, 04:56:35 pm
But Gauss cannon buckshot could be a happy medium...
Title: Re: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: Strait Raider on November 26, 2011, 05:04:10 pm
You mean like this?

http://forums.blockaderunnergame.com/index.php?topic=428.msg8194#msg8194

 ;D
Title: Re: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: Iago on June 12, 2014, 11:43:42 am
Bump

I will not give up my idea of multiblocks!

Imagine this: For a plasma cannon, you would need electromagnets to contain the plasma, noble gasses to electrocute, and electrodes.
For a mass driver: Magnets, slugs(probably a prefab), ammo racks, ammo feeder.

This can also be applied to reactors(magnets and stuff), thrusters(plasma must be ionized and expelled). All of these would have to be wired up.

Like in some minecraft mods(tekkit, thaumcraft, voltz)
Title: Re: How are Guns Gonna work. (ship weaponry)
Post by: Aaron on June 12, 2014, 10:05:11 pm
Bump

I will not give up my idea of multiblocks!

Imagine this: For a plasma cannon, you would need electromagnets to contain the plasma, noble gasses to electrocute, and electrodes.
For a mass driver: Magnets, slugs(probably a prefab), ammo racks, ammo feeder.

This can also be applied to reactors(magnets and stuff), thrusters(plasma must be ionized and expelled). All of these would have to be wired up.

Like in some minecraft mods(tekkit, thaumcraft, voltz)

You've read the modular weapons thread, aye?  http://forums.blockaderunnergame.com/index.php?topic=2377.0