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General Info => Support => Archives => Topic started by: Elvengod on May 05, 2012, 06:19:34 pm

Title: Multiplayer Plasma Weapons!!!
Post by: Elvengod on May 05, 2012, 06:19:34 pm
One of the best aspects of Blockade Runner is the ability of a Plasma Weapon to shoot through one another allowing for massive lazars, however, a side effect is that you cant completely obliterate your frenemies ships ;) . so if Y'all up in Zanmgt could maybe make it so that each plasma shot knows which plasma weapons are its creators, and which ones it can kill, that would be cool  ;D


...Also... If y'all could make the force field bubble dissapear so that i can ram my buddies and not play bumper cars, that would be cool...
Title: Re: Multiplayer Plasma Weapons!!!
Post by: spartan007 on May 05, 2012, 06:29:30 pm
lol agreed although another problem or one that i have had, you end up blowing up your own ship while turning and shooting.I dont how that would be fixed but,that would be nice to XD
Title: Re: Multiplayer Plasma Weapons!!!
Post by: Strait Raider on May 05, 2012, 06:37:44 pm
Plasma weapon invulnerability will probably be modified when weapons are revamped. The last priority list was 1) First-person movement, 2) Ship movement overhaul, 3) Weapons overhaul.

Better collision has been on the to-do list for a while as well, we'll have to see when it comes up.
Title: Re: Multiplayer Plasma Weapons!!!
Post by: SnowDragon on May 05, 2012, 07:35:09 pm
Eh, better collision should come after better ship spawning in. As it is, the ships play bumper cars when they get brought in, I can only imagine the kind of entertainment that will come about as I try to spawn a FireLance into my shipyard with SH already parked there and the Cruiser becomes part of the freaking hull hah!
Title: Re: Multiplayer Plasma Weapons!!!
Post by: Neonivek on May 05, 2012, 08:42:19 pm
Truthfully I wouldn't want the ability to truely uttarly obliterate a ship. I'd rather it fragment into peices.
Title: Re: Multiplayer Plasma Weapons!!!
Post by: Wadusher on May 05, 2012, 09:14:53 pm
Truthfully I wouldn't want the ability to truely uttarly obliterate a ship. I'd rather it fragment into peices.
I'm sure small fighters and bombers can be completely obliterated with ease whereas large enough capital ships would likely only fragment with even the warpcore exploding.
Title: Re: Multiplayer Plasma Weapons!!!
Post by: Imaus on May 05, 2012, 11:43:56 pm
Truthfully I wouldn't want the ability to truely uttarly obliterate a ship. I'd rather it fragment into peices.
I'm sure small fighters and bombers can be completely obliterated with ease whereas large enough capital ships would likely only fragment with even the warpcore exploding.

^
Title: Re: Multiplayer Plasma Weapons!!!
Post by: Bladecatcher on May 06, 2012, 03:14:57 am
Idk. I'd like a little bit of debris when a fighter is destroyed. Nothing as big as a chunk of the hull, but a good amount of random blocks flying every which way would be pretty cool. Plus, after a large battle there would be a good sized debris field to scavenge through. I guess it all depends on the construction of the ship and where the reactor is. I agree about the larger ships though. I really want to be able to destroy the reactor of a ship, but then still have to fight the remaining crew in the smoldering, powerless front half of the ship as it tumbles through space.

This game is going to be so badass.  8)
Title: Re: Multiplayer Plasma Weapons!!!
Post by: kaptnkrunch on May 06, 2012, 04:36:17 am
I'd love if a ship fragmented, so that if any blocks are no longer in contact the ship, where the ship is defined as any block in contact with the block with blue feet on it, then they are detached and float off at the their last known velocity. That'd be sweet.
Title: Re: Multiplayer Plasma Weapons!!!
Post by: mamastoast on May 06, 2012, 08:30:08 am
It all depends on how the ship is destroyed though. If if you just happen to disable it from small well placed shots somehow, I'd expect even fighters to remain just a wreck, but if hit by a missile or just generelly torn to pieces (which I imagine will happen in most cases) Fighters and such should just go up in flames I think with only a few parts left floating. What worries me a bit thugh is the amount of entities A furture detachment system will cause. I mean if every detached block turns into its own entity and floats away, won't that be extreme heavy to run?
Title: Re: Multiplayer Plasma Weapons!!!
Post by: kaptnkrunch on May 06, 2012, 08:33:42 am
That's a fair point actually.

Having zillions of floating things would lag everything to shreds. One way of doing it would be to make any sets of blocks  less than 10 in number decay and disappear after 5-10 seconds, perhaps leaving static dust that could be harvested and flow through?

That way you'd still get bits of large wreckage, but not many bits, and stuff to harvest after a battle.
Title: Re: Multiplayer Plasma Weapons!!!
Post by: mamastoast on May 06, 2012, 08:41:47 am
On the actual point of OP. I honestly couldn't disagree more. I see it is a big issue with many ships designs right now, that people place a bunch of cannons on top of eachother to make "super lasers". This is why I also avoid this, same with engine blocks. It's simply stupid to "stack" weapons like that. If you place a cannon behind anything, it should hit it, including another cannon. Now if you want a huge space gun that isn't just one layer of cannons , you should wait till the devs implement a huge place gun for you to place, or wait till we as users have the ability to make one ourselves.


@Kaptn Problem with that, is that a huge thing about blockade runner will be the ability to board a wreck of a larger ship in spacesuits  and possible loot whatever valueable you may find inside. THis wouldnt work with if they despawned. Then again you do say less than 10.. so maybe, yea we'll 100% need a despawner for single blocks.. unless the devs can program it so they're not super heavy
Title: Re: Multiplayer Plasma Weapons!!!
Post by: kaptnkrunch on May 06, 2012, 08:51:28 am
On the actual point of OP. I honestly couldn't disagree more. I see it is a big issue with many ships designs right now, that people place a bunch of cannons on top of eachother to make "super lasers". This is why I also avoid this, same with engine blocks. It's simply stupid to "stack" weapons like that. If you place a cannon behind anything, it should hit it, including another cannon. Now if you want a huge space gun that isn't just one layer of cannons , you should wait till the devs implement a huge place gun for you to place, or wait till we as users have the ability to make one ourselves.


@Kaptn Problem with that, is that a huge thing about blockade runner will be the ability to board a wreck of a larger ship in spacesuits  and possible loot whatever valueable you may find inside. THis would work with if they despawned. Then again you do say less than 10.. so maybe, yea we'll 100% need a despawner for single blocks.. unless the devs can program it so they're not super heavy

I agree with your take on the plasma. Stacking them doesn't make any sense, they really ought to just be fixed fighter weapons with power scaling depending on what sort of reactor they're connected to.
Proper guns are to be implemented soon anyway, so wouldn't worry.

Re: wreckage
That's the idea, only small stuff you can't board would decay and become static dust. Big interesting bits of wreckage (say the front half of a space ship that got blown in half) would stay floating around and be able to be boarded : D
I'm a massive fan of the idea of boarding space hulks etc.
Title: Re: Multiplayer Plasma Weapons!!!
Post by: mamastoast on May 06, 2012, 08:59:48 am
On the actual point of OP. I honestly couldn't disagree more. I see it is a big issue with many ships designs right now, that people place a bunch of cannons on top of eachother to make "super lasers". This is why I also avoid this, same with engine blocks. It's simply stupid to "stack" weapons like that. If you place a cannon behind anything, it should hit it, including another cannon. Now if you want a huge space gun that isn't just one layer of cannons , you should wait till the devs implement a huge place gun for you to place, or wait till we as users have the ability to make one ourselves.


@Kaptn Problem with that, is that a huge thing about blockade runner will be the ability to board a wreck of a larger ship in spacesuits  and possible loot whatever valueable you may find inside. THis would work with if they despawned. Then again you do say less than 10.. so maybe, yea we'll 100% need a despawner for single blocks.. unless the devs can program it so they're not super heavy

I agree with your take on the plasma. Stacking them doesn't make any sense, they really ought to just be fixed fighter weapons with power scaling depending on what sort of reactor they're connected to.
Proper guns are to be implemented soon anyway, so wouldn't worry.

Re: wreckage
That's the idea, only small stuff you can't board would decay and become static dust. Big interesting bits of wreckage (say the front half of a space ship that got blown in half) would stay floating around and be able to be boarded : D
I'm a massive fan of the idea of boarding space hulks etc.

Yea... god it'll be so awesome.. imagine walking through abandoned wallways and stuff, maybe even with floating corpses in some rooms... so cool!
Title: Re: Multiplayer Plasma Weapons!!!
Post by: Elvengod on May 06, 2012, 11:37:06 am
Completely dominating and obliterating a ship should be possible, it shouldn't be easy!!! normally people would be satisfied with just blowing the ship to chunks, but say you and your Nemesis were duking it out, and even though technically your ship was weaker, you managed to beat him, who wouldn't enjoy rubbing your victory in your frenemies face even more by completely annihilating every last chunk? it would probably be hard as heck, maybe even harder than the battle was itself, but it should still be possible. Ok, im done :)
Title: Re: Multiplayer Plasma Weapons!!!
Post by: blackether on May 06, 2012, 12:19:06 pm
Cannons stack right now so people can have more interesting weapons than just 1 kind of gun. The functionality provided by 'stacking' is a precursor to a wider variety of weapons coming down the road, but have not been implemented (remember, weapon overhaul got 3rd place behind ship movement and player movement in the vote).

As soon as there is a sufficient depth in weapons, I can assure you that the days of 'stacking' as we know them will be over. That said, 'stacking' will be first replaced with prefab weapons (the first of which we have already seen). After prefabs have been well defined, work will then begin on making many systems modular and component-driven. This means that the function of the _______ (weapon in this case) will be determined by its component blocks, and not necessarily by a predetermined weapon type. Therefore it will come down to decisions like: if I add this flux reflector damage will be increased by 10%, but power requirements will be increased 25%. Things will be much more complicated but will provide us with the freedom to make a huge variety in weapons (as well as many other important devices like FTL drives and shipboard computers).


Ships are very easy to destroy at the moment because shields have yet to be implemented. They will fundamentally change the game when they are, and gameplay will have to evolve with them.
Title: Re: Multiplayer Plasma Weapons!!!
Post by: mamastoast on May 06, 2012, 12:34:28 pm
Completely dominating and obliterating a ship should be possible, it shouldn't be easy!!! normally people would be satisfied with just blowing the ship to chunks, but say you and your Nemesis were duking it out, and even though technically your ship was weaker, you managed to beat him, who wouldn't enjoy rubbing your victory in your frenemies face even more by completely annihilating every last chunk? it would probably be hard as heck, maybe even harder than the battle was itself, but it should still be possible. Ok, im done :)

pfft, I'd bring avoid my repair crew and salvage the ship :P how better the rub in your victory than by stealing his ship
Title: Re: Multiplayer Plasma Weapons!!!
Post by: Neonivek on May 06, 2012, 12:40:03 pm
Quote
Cannons stack right now so people can have more interesting weapons than just 1 kind of gun. The functionality provided by 'stacking' is a precursor to a wider variety of weapons coming down the road, but have not been implemented (remember, weapon overhaul got 3rd place behind ship movement and player movement in the vote).


Actually that would be too bad. I actually like stacking to a certain extent. As it allows you to essentially make an appropriate weapon no matter how big the ship is.
Title: Re: Multiplayer Plasma Weapons!!!
Post by: mamastoast on May 06, 2012, 12:51:49 pm
It wouldnt be too bad at all. BR is supposed to become a game. Allowing you to stack cannon makes no sense at all, we're supposed to have to make tactical choices about which guns we choose to mount on our ships, not simply throw a bunch of plasma cannon stacks. The fact that cannons shoot through eachother is just an issue they haven't gotten around to yet. It's the same with thrusters, I'm sure thrusters wont be able to just be stacks in the same manner they are now
Title: Re: Multiplayer Plasma Weapons!!!
Post by: Neonivek on May 06, 2012, 12:56:01 pm
It makes perfect sense as it is mostly the game allowing you to adjust the weapons and thrusters yourself instead of having an infinite number of thrusters and plasma weapons.

It was actually one of the neater aspects of the game even when I knew they were adding prefab weapons and engines too.

I kinda hope it remains in the game in some form. Even if it has to be weakened.
Title: Re: Multiplayer Plasma Weapons!!!
Post by: Strait Raider on May 06, 2012, 01:05:22 pm
It would be a shame to lose this capability completely. IMO, this should be carried on in at least a couple of different weapon systems. The customizeability is great.

Think of what we have created - 400 meter superlasers, weapons that shoot words, a ship named Thor that fires a massive hammer-shaped projectile.

How awesome is this?
Title: Re: Multiplayer Plasma Weapons!!!
Post by: mamastoast on May 06, 2012, 01:07:26 pm
How does it makes sense for a weapon to fire through another? If you want a stronger small weapon you'll have to buy it and power it with whatever it requires. If it stays I would consider it a bug or at best an exploit. We're gonna have all kinds of different weapon types for our ships, the current plasma cannon was just implemented to test the system.

@Strait and this is exactly why it shouldnt be in the game, . 400 meter superlasers would break the game completely. Making words come out of cannons is all fun and good to mess around with, but it doesn't fit in an actual game, specially not one that isn't supposed to be completely cartoony


The game is gonna feature an oxygen system, power and all sorts of cool stuff, do you guys honestly think that they're gonna have such a silly weapon system that actually allows us to stack weapons ontop of eachother?
Title: Re: Multiplayer Plasma Weapons!!!
Post by: Neonivek on May 06, 2012, 01:11:27 pm
Simple Mamastoast

It is like having a long tube that increases the power of the weapon as it goes along.

Like a railgun or the death star.

As for balance, that would be the diminishing returns and increasing power requirements... a 400 meter super laser would require a simply massive ship with excessive engine requirements that could probably only fire once.
Title: Re: Multiplayer Plasma Weapons!!!
Post by: mamastoast on May 06, 2012, 01:15:11 pm
Simple Mamastoast

It is like having a long tube that increases the power of the weapon as it goes along.

Like a railgun or the death star.

As for balance, that would be the diminishing returns and increasing power requirements... a 400 meter super laser would require a simply massive ship with excessive engine requirements that could probably only fire once.

That is completely different from the stacking of weapons. First of all that would amount to one projectile, as it should, not a line of  projectiles able to slice through an entire ship as it would most likely react upon impact with the hull. It would able to able to be destroyed by hitting a single section, which stacked weapons wouldnt. Lastly You wouldnt be able to hide the power of such a weapon seeing as when stacking a weapons you have no chance to see the amount of stacked layers behind the front. With a cannon with "extended barrel" you could easily read this.

Yes, but that would amount to (as you said) a huge, huge ship to power and support such a cannon, hence it wouldn't be a spacelaser of the designs we've seen so far, it would actually be a ship with everything that comes with it.
Title: Re: Multiplayer Plasma Weapons!!!
Post by: Neonivek on May 06, 2012, 01:18:13 pm
Quote
First of all that would amount to one projectile

Unless it had a feeding system like the death star. Since these arn't solid systems.
Title: Re: Multiplayer Plasma Weapons!!!
Post by: mamastoast on May 06, 2012, 01:19:14 pm
Quote
First of all that would amount to one projectile

Unless it had a feeding system like the death star.

Yes, but I was talking about if the weapon in question was similar to our current plasma cannons
Title: Re: Multiplayer Plasma Weapons!!!
Post by: Neonivek on May 06, 2012, 01:20:42 pm
So there you go, the current stacked weapons are functional within the realm of logic.

I don't know what your objecting to. Since stacked plasma weaponry is more representational.

Though if you want to get into a "what makes sense" war I guess I could bring up that for some of these ships they should snap right in half and that not having a continuous set of retrorockets would destroy them.
Title: Re: Multiplayer Plasma Weapons!!!
Post by: mamastoast on May 06, 2012, 01:22:23 pm
... what.... ? How did you even come to that conclusion at all? I just raised several objections and none of them have been adressed
Title: Re: Multiplayer Plasma Weapons!!!
Post by: Neonivek on May 06, 2012, 01:24:44 pm
... what.... ? How did you even come to that conclusion at all? I just raised several objections and none of them have been adressed

Your issue is that when you see two stacked plasma blocks you picture it as one plasma block magically shooting through another

Rather then both of them working in tandem or both of them being one plasma weapon that just looks like two.

Its a stuck perception that cannot be penetrated by all means this conversation is done
Title: Re: Multiplayer Plasma Weapons!!!
Post by: theallmightybob on May 06, 2012, 01:27:31 pm
the plasma stack is just a test run for more complex "stack" weapons from what I understand.  in the end the devs said weapon stack would likely be more like the current engine prefabs. with a base a middle and an end. allowing for any scale really.

Title: Re: Multiplayer Plasma Weapons!!!
Post by: Neonivek on May 06, 2012, 01:29:24 pm
the plasma stack is just a test run for more complex "stack" weapons from what I understand.  in the end the devs said weapon stack would likely be more like the current engine prefabs. with a base a middle and an end. allowing for any scale really.

Which is good because currently plasma weapons can hit the sides of your ship quite easily.

Though that still works exactly like plasma weapons, except different.
Title: Re: Multiplayer Plasma Weapons!!!
Post by: mamastoast on May 06, 2012, 02:30:01 pm
... what.... ? How did you even come to that conclusion at all? I just raised several objections and none of them have been adressed

Your issue is that when you see two stacked plasma blocks you picture it as one plasma block magically shooting through another

Rather then both of them working in tandem or both of them being one plasma weapon that just looks like two.

Its a stuck perception that cannot be penetrated by all means this conversation is done

Oh please don't give me this "surperior" attitude, thinking you can just end a discussion with some closing statement. "I" don't have an issue mate, "we" have a disagreement.

Yes I see this as 2 weapons firing through eachother because that's what happens right now, which is what we were talking about from the get go, it's not my fault if you've somehow started talking about something different without making it clear it even tried to explain it.

No matter how much you want it, it's not just 1 weapon that looks like two, it's two weapons acting like two weapons stacked ontop of eachother. I'm all for adjustable and customizable weapons, and if that's what you want, good then we agree, but that was never what we were discussing.

I'm sorry if I come off a bit angry where, but I quite frankly find it offensive that you'd pretend to be "above me" or whatever you were trying to convey.
Title: Re: Multiplayer Plasma Weapons!!!
Post by: Strait Raider on May 06, 2012, 03:21:11 pm
This isn't going anywhere now. With regards to the two initial concerns, both are being worked on.

Multiple-component weapons are planned and have been discussed in a couple of threads, and this (http://forums.blockaderunnergame.com/index.php?topic=143.msg11192#msg11192) is what we're thinking it may be like.